Butch chicks and straight dudes

sacrificialgoddess wrote:You gotta love them, right cap?

They are so silly!!

Yes we do and yes they are

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:I will say that from my point of view, there is really nothing hotter than a woman who can be butch, and still come off as feminine.

What, to you, is "feminine" though?

I think the character that best shows this would be Kate on Lost.

She's very traditionally feminine looking, though. Just to be clear, I'm talking solely about looks, not personality or interest. When it comes to the latter two, I'm a pretty dorky guy.

Sakhaiva wrote:
Well Geno, my first response to your op is to suggest that you ignore whatever your ex shared with you (especially if you didn't ask his opinion first)

Oh, I am ignoring it. Ex is a she, btw... I guess that's what you call internalized sexism. But it did make me wonder. I know how well society often succeeds at convincing people they want things they may otherwise not (otherwise advertising wouldn't exist). I see the kinds of women that are plastered on every magazine cover, and all of the leading ladies in movies and TV. I know that for every Ellen in the media there are ten thousand Angelinas.

Butch can be funny, but it still isn't beautiful. But that doesn't stop us from trying.

Genocon,

"Butch" to some folks is simply "not wearing high heels". It is a subjective label used to devalue someone.

If you feel beautiful, then you are beautiful. There is nothing sexier than self-confidence. (ok, ok, self confidence with a teddy is a close second, but I'm a male. We're simple creatures)

Your ex's comments are a reflection on her state of mind and not your beauty.

I'll tell you like I've taught my daughter. The pictures in the magazine are not real. They are airbrushed images that appeal to the people publishing the magazine. I don't find them appealing. My daughter has looked at some of the pictures in the grocery aisle and said "somebody needs to give her a sandwich".

I'm so proud of her.

Kids say the most profound things sometimes... and they're so damn *cute* when they do it!

You know some of the most feminine women I have ever met or slobbered over were stone butch. I think that's me though.

I have met women that, at thirty paces, you think you're seeing a man. Then with a wiggle in the walk, a turn of the head or a flip of the wrist those 'mannish' women metamorphse into beautiful, gorgeous and completely feminine women.

For me it isn't the clothes, make up, or hair style that say femininity. It is the grace and power of a woman who lives in her body, knows what that grace and power are about then projects it.

Again, I am an odd ball here. I got raised, so to speak, by very butch women who were quite free, graceful and powerful in their female bodies. Women who are comfortable in thier skins are the ones that trun my head and make my jaw drop to the floor. These are women's women. They revel in their femininity in a way that shout's here is another way to be a woman.

Itty, you know how to make it sound glorious to be a female.

Genocon wrote:

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:I will say that from my point of view, there is really nothing hotter than a woman who can be butch, and still come off as feminine.

What, to you, is "feminine" though?

I think the character that best shows this would be Kate on Lost.

She's very traditionally feminine looking, though. Just to be clear, I'm talking solely about looks, not personality or interest. When it comes to the latter two, I'm a pretty dorky guy.

This is more complicated than I was thinking it would be.

Evangeline Lilly is feminine, Kate is a little more butch. The character of Kate on lost is often dirty, wearing dirty cloths, running around in the jungle, and most importantly, not worrying about what it is doing to her hair.

Even thought she cleans up ok, I wouldn't consider this



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season 4 promotional pic



To be as feminine as this...



Evangeline is definitely a bit more of a "boyish" build.

Not that I'd kick Scarlett out of bed for snoring either.

all

Picture of Kate that should have been in last post



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season 4 promotional pic

Hmmm, maybe that picture doesn't come up. It is here, by the way.....



http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2274/2150694213_434ef138f9.jpg

That is not quite what I was envisioning as butch, she looks feminine to me

For TV she's butch.

How's this?

Much better

Just for the record, this is too much

I can't even look at that, no offense but at that point I can't look at men or women it is (to put it politely) unpleasant for me, yuck

For me I like moderation, For both sexes, Not to fem, not to masculine, just a nice balance.

Yeah, that's where it becomes grotesque.

Now this is just hot

A woman with defined muscles competently handling a sniper rifle is just damned sexy. Weapon on safe, muzzle controlled, finger out of trigger guard and in comfortable carry........ yup works for me. And for the record, I was just READING the shirt . If I asked if she was wearing work boots, would that sound like a fetish?

Ya know, I bet she is wearing the boots too.

It's Kari Byron from Mythbusters. I think I've seen her in boots before.

all

Genocon wrote:

Sakhaiva wrote:
Well Geno, my first response to your op is to suggest that you ignore whatever your ex shared with you (especially if you didn't ask his opinion first)

Oh, I am ignoring it. Ex is a she, btw... I guess that's what you call internalized sexism. But it did make me wonder. I know how well society often succeeds at convincing people they want things they may otherwise not (otherwise advertising wouldn't exist). I see the kinds of women that are plastered on every magazine cover, and all of the leading ladies in movies and TV. I know that for every Ellen in the media there are ten thousand Angelinas.

Butch can be funny, but it still isn't beautiful. But that doesn't stop us from trying.

Oh I'm sorry Genocon ... you see how easy it is to make assumptions

Odd, as a gal I hiked with was talking about her ex (also a woman... who was still married btw) ... my friend shared that received a LOT of pressure from her ex demanding that she lose weight, dress a certain way, fix her hair.... get WAXED (which was taking it way tooooo far imho) and the crazy think is that the woman talking with me was really pretty. She wore no make up, had basic hair, jeans and an old t-shirt... and she was a big strong gal... but she was very beautiful and just looked healthy to me.

You are right re: the images shoved down our throats... for every Ellen there really are ten thousand Angelinas.

I'll take an Ellen. Or an Angelina. But don't expect me to keep Angelina wanting all those rugrats.

Yes the young women from Mythbuster is quite attractive and very capable.

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:I'll take an Ellen. Or an Angelina. But don't expect me to keep Angelina wanting all those rugrats.

But I thought you promised me a baby?

sacrificialgoddess wrote:

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:I'll take an Ellen. Or an Angelina. But don't expect me to keep Angelina wanting all those rugrats.

But I thought you promised me a baby?

Yeah but you're special!

Sakhaiva wrote:

Oh I'm sorry Genocon ... you see how easy it is to make assumptions

'sokay.

Odd, as a gal I hiked with was talking about her ex (also a woman... who was still married btw) ... my friend shared that received a LOT of pressure from her ex demanding that she lose weight, dress a certain way, fix her hair.... get WAXED (which was taking it way tooooo far imho) and the crazy think is that the woman talking with me was really pretty. She wore no make up, had basic hair, jeans and an old t-shirt... and she was a big strong gal... but she was very beautiful and just looked healthy to me.

Yeah, women really are much, much more critical about female appearance, both their own and other females', than men. It's other women who give me crap about not shaving my legs, not wearing makeup, etc. Hell, not even the gay guys I know give a crap, or at least don't care enough to say anything.

You are right re: the images shoved down our throats... for every Ellen there really are ten thousand Angelinas.

And even the other Ellens on TV usually look like Angelinas. That's why I could never get into "The L Word." It's about lesbians, but they're all super-femme ones. Even the relatively butch ones are still more femme than anything. God knows I love femmes but there's more than one way to be a woman.