COMMUNICATION, How and Why men don't always listen to their ladies

Have been encouraged to start this topic. And I want it made very clean I am not bashing men in the least.
It is more a way of trying to understand.

I would appreciate knowing why there are times, when men seen to tune women out or even worse in my opinion not take seriously our concerns?

Is there a way women can be more clear and concise, so men realize how important these issues are.

And what is the man's perspective on the way men and women communicate?

Since many times quite unintentionally, we seem to talk past each other.

This of course is communication between couples.

Anyone have any idea how we can communicate with each other more effectively. After all we are trying to communicate with people we love. Yes?

My husband has requested that I make sure I have his attention before I start talking to him....seems to work most of the time. Of course the TV distracts him....so I say outlandish things to him to see if he's listening!

If you want to talk about problems with me, and seek solutions, then I am all over it. If you simply want to mentally masturbate by wallowing in all your woes, honestly, I will tune you out each and every time.

I have a simple checklist for problems that I review all the time:
1)Is it still a problem? If yes go to 2
2)Can I do anything about it? If yes, do so
If could be yes if I had something else, make plans for that
If no, don't waste energy on it.

If you make a decision, follow it through aggressively, do not start mentally second guessing yourself to the point that you have spent more energy worrying about whether it was the right call than you have left to spend applying the solution you chose. Failure at that point is usually the result of dithering, not choosing wrong. I will tune you out when you are wasting time and energy undercutting the decisions you have already made. I will not contribute to your failure. If you want to whip yourself, there is no sense my tiring my arms or staining my honour with your self flagellation.

Women in my experience seem to have some need to waste energy, to experience unnecessary suffering, and to sabotage their own success by beating themselves over the head with doubts and crippling self-assessments. Some guys have learned this trick to (known to menfolk as losers).

In the army they taught us this most important of all truths; it is better to do the wrong thing with total commitment and focus, than to spend the time and energy you have vainly seeking for some theoretical best thing you could have done. The perfect is the enemy of the good; worry endlessly about imperfections in your plans, decisions, and outcomes, and you will guarantee your failure.

Hmm. Well, this afternoon, when we were watching a TV show, and I said to my husband, with five minutes left in the program, "After this show, I will clean the kitchen," some how in his boy brain that translated as "I don't want to clean the kitchen, you are going to have to do it; suck it."

He jumped up in a humph towards the kitchen, and I followed. I said to him as he was clanging around in there "I said I would do that after the program."

He looked at me, a dumbfounded look on his face, and said, "Oh, okay." and went back into the living room and sat down to watch TV. So that is how I missed the last five minutes of the tv show.

Explain that one to me, men.

That ones on him. Again he has read into your saying that you will do it after the show that you don't want to do it at all, and if he cares so much get off his fat ass and do it himself.

Not your problem. That is not what you said, probably not what you meant. You are not responsible for what he thinks you were intending with that statement.

A real problem is when you have a fight and something is said that really hurts, and then afterwards you are always looking for the shadow of that statement in everything that is said. There are always things that we feel sensitive about, and once those buttons have been hit, it gets real easy to see attacks in innocuous statements.

Counterproductive, you will get so many false positives you will create problems where none were. Do it often enough and you will have brand new problems.

Clarity is king. Say exactly what you mean, demand the same in return and don't punish each other for telling the truth. After a while you get to the point where mostly you understand that "I'll do this after the show is over" means that it is the very next thing on your to do list, right after watching the last five minutes of this show that I am really into right now.

Ya know, it's not just men. My ex and I had similar problems. I felt like I had to be able to read her mind if I wanted to survive, since what I was hearing her tell me was apparently not what she was actually thinking when she said it. The day wasn't complete without hearing, "You never listen to me."

When I was in psych class in college, I read a book called You Just Don't Understand by Deborah Tannen. Her thesis is that men's communication is primarily about collecting information whereas women's communication is primarily about building bonds with others. It's a fairly accurate assessment, in my experience.

I think it's just a matter of how our brains are wired to process communication. Perhaps women tend to be one way and men another, and there are some who are in between and others who are opposite to the way their gender usually tends toward.

rethinking this be back soon

sacrificialgoddess wrote:Hmm. Well, this afternoon, when we were watching a TV show, and I said to my husband, with five minutes left in the program, "After this show, I will clean the kitchen," some how in his boy brain that translated as "I don't want to clean the kitchen, you are going to have to do it; suck it."

He jumped up in a humph towards the kitchen, and I followed. I said to him as he was clanging around in there "I said I would do that after the program."

He looked at me, a dumbfounded look on his face, and said, "Oh, okay." and went back into the living room and sat down to watch TV. So that is how I missed the last five minutes of the tv show.

Explain that one to me, men.

Oh come on SG.. it's simple... can't you see it? He loves you... and wanted to make sure you knew that he was going to help you in the kitchen. That's all... Go easy on him.. he's a man after all...

You know it is funny, how different we read things, I take everything a face value, I (sometimes foolishly) accept that what you said is what you meant. I never read into anything.

I never stop to say to myself, what did he or she mean by that, I just think they meant what they said. I have never understood reading into someone elses words

I know someone who reads into everything anyone says male or female, and it usually turns into something paranoid.

MaineCaptain wrote:You know it is funny, how different we read things, I take everything a face value, I (sometimes foolishly) accept that what you said is what you meant. I never read into anything.

I never stop to say to myself, what did he or she mean by that, I just think they meant what they said. I have never understood reading into someone elses words

I know someone who reads into everything anyone says male or female, and it usually turns into something paranoid.

Well... if only that were always the case.. Every woman I've been with has expected me to KNOW what she was thinking .. even if her words were saying something else. That's been my experience.

It is true many women are like that, they seem to expect men to be psychic as to her needs and wants. I will not lie and say I am incapable. But I am hoping I have learned enough to at least not be so stupid as to be upset if the man I am fortunately enough to find does not have this hoped for psychic ability.

Thus I will have to actually verbalize what I desire. On more then one occasion I have wanted to hit a women for not appreciating the considerate man she had. And I am not generally a violent person.

We all make mistakes, but we do need to try not to and apologize when we do, both sides. Make amends

My two cents

MaineCaptain wrote:It is true many women are like that, they seem to expect men to be psychic as to her needs and wants. I will not lie and say I am incapable. But I am hoping I have learned enough to at least not be so stupid as to be upset if the man I am fortunately enough to find does not have this hoped for psychic ability.

Thus I will have to actually verbalize what I desire. On more then one occasion I have wanted to hit a women for not appreciating the considerate man she had. And I am not generally a violent person

We all make mistakes, but we do need to try not to and apologize when we do, both sides. Make amends

My two cents

Well...Maine .. it is clear that any man lucky enough to be with you.. will not need psychic ability.

BTW.. I don't have psychic ability.. and I've never met anyone who does.... but I REALLY do try to read between then lines when I'm with a woman.

And yes.. I admit it.. there may have been a time or two when I've tuned them out as well...

Men and women are very different animals.... and that is probably part of the reason we are drawn toward each other.

Rob

Well, overall, he's a good man, but there are days, like today, I just want to pull my hair out.

Thank you Rob you are really sweet

As for you SG, I know you are both wonderful people, sometimes people have off days. Don't pull out your hair it is lovely

Well, one of the problems in my experience is something John kind of alluded to. Sometimes, I have frustrating problems or situations in my life that don't have an easy fix. When I verbalize them, I don't want the man to fix it, I just want to talk about it because it makes me feel better to do that. Sometimes after I talk about it I realize that it's just going to have to take time or I have to think about it differently because it isn't going to change. Sometimes I just want to hear someone say "Oh, you poor thing." or otherwise recognize that my life has difficulties.

Some of the men in my life, get very upset with this because they can't fix it, and call them "frustration stories". They don't want to hear about it if they can't fix it or they can't tell me how to fix it. I think they need to learn that sometimes they don't have to fix it, they just have to be a friend and listen.

Maybe that's what guys want to be able to do; fix it. I know what you mean, Gilly. My husband is best when there is a fix. When there is not a fix, he gets cranky and second guesses him self and me when we pick a course of action.

It can be very frustrating.

gillyflower wrote: I think they need to learn that sometimes they don't have to fix it, they just have to be a friend and listen.

Yes Gilly, what you are saying is something that I HAVE learned well about women.

Men.. do want to step in and fix the problem... whatever it is. It comes from a good place.. I hope... but I've learned (the hard way..) that women don't always want that.

Hey... I've learned a few things over the years... and that's one of them. Sometimes all women want is an ear and a shoulder. And I do undertstand that now...

Rob

I have this as well. And psychology has taught that men (generally speaking) want to fix stuff which is nice, but not always necessary. Sometimes just being listened too helps you to figure out a problem and whether it can be repaired.

And it nice to just have a little sympathy.

We all learn and grow.




And Rob you are definitely a winner.

He sure it!

My mother used to call it "tea and sympathy."

My husband often say that I think like a man When I say something, don't over think it. When I say ''I'm going to bed'' it means I'm going to bed. No means no, black is black. If I need to say something, I will...even if you don't like it. If we have a verbal ''fight'', after 5 minutes it's over and done, I don't think about it anymore.

I think that's why we don't really have fights, sure we have disagreements, but nothing about the meaning of what he said/she said.

My close girlfriends are like me too...if you have something to say, say it. If I don't like it, I'll deal with it.

John T Mainer wrote:If you want to talk about problems with me, and seek solutions, then I am all over it. If you simply want to mentally masturbate by wallowing in all your woes, honestly, I will tune you out each and every time.

I have a simple checklist for problems that I review all the time:
1)Is it still a problem? If yes go to 2
2)Can I do anything about it? If yes, do so
If could be yes if I had something else, make plans for that
If no, don't waste energy on it.

If you make a decision, follow it through aggressively, do not start mentally second guessing yourself to the point that you have spent more energy worrying about whether it was the right call than you have left to spend applying the solution you chose. Failure at that point is usually the result of dithering, not choosing wrong. I will tune you out when you are wasting time and energy undercutting the decisions you have already made. I will not contribute to your failure. If you want to whip yourself, there is no sense my tiring my arms or staining my honour with your self flagellation.

Women in my experience seem to have some need to waste energy, to experience unnecessary suffering, and to sabotage their own success by beating themselves over the head with doubts and crippling self-assessments. Some guys have learned this trick to (known to menfolk as losers).

In the army they taught us this most important of all truths; it is better to do the wrong thing with total commitment and focus, than to spend the time and energy you have vainly seeking for some theoretical best thing you could have done. The perfect is the enemy of the good; worry endlessly about imperfections in your plans, decisions, and outcomes, and you will guarantee your failure.

OK, here's one of our problems RIGHT HERE.

Men seem to think that if you can't fix it, you shouldn't discuss it,,,,,,

certainly not to them!!!

Women seem to think that you SHOULD discuss it,,,,,,,

we are different creatures,,,,women are far more emotional,,,,,we have a NEED to talk through it,,,,,sometimes we even find SOLUTIONS by talking through it,,,,,,and sometimes we only FEEL better,,,,which TO US is a solution,,,,,if not a PERFECT solution,,,,,,it's at least better than NOTHING.

that is not 'mental masturbation by wallowing in my woes"!! any more than YOUR not discussing it is "cold, callous, and mean spirited",,,,

I find I am much better off if I say to my DH "I don't expect you to fix this,,,,,"

or "I just need to talk through this until I figure out what's really bothering me about this,,,,"

or "I just need to rant about this and I'll feel better",,,,,,

Holly

You know it is an interesting concept in Mental health.

The idea that a women wanting to discuss something that can't be fixed is a waste of time. It is not a waste, because it helps her access a situation, find an answer or figure out how to recover from it, simply by talking it out.

But you can't talk it out if your partner is not interested or listening to you. Talking it out, whether it can be "fixed" or not helps women heal.

Therein lies the difference I guess. To a woman talking about things that she cannot deal with may be of benefit. To me all that lies down that road is increasing rage and frustration. My energy that should be harnessed to solve problems now turned against myself, gnawing at wounds it is only making worse, while ignoring the just targets of that strength, where victory may be found.

Obsessing over what you cannot change leads to either the acceptance of your powerlessness, or irrational striking out that destroys all hope of progress that same strength could have won.

To a woman that way may lead to healing. To a man, that way lies madness and self destruction. It is an oversimplification, but women are the natural cooperators, and men the natural competitors; where a woman would find an opportunity to bond through sharing, a man sees weakness that invites defeat and draws attack.

There are a number of ways to approach any one problem, but expecting a wolf and a lamb to chose the same strategy and to equal effect is a good way to be wrong consistently. Men and women are actually worse off, as wolves and sheep do not expect to understand each other. Men and women often expect each other to instinctively understand what our instincts will never read the same.

Well.. all I know is... depending on the emotion involved.. I can usually figure out if the women I'm with wants me to help her fix the problem.. or let her vent and/or cry on my shoulder. It took a few "misunderstandings" for me to get the message... but I eventually "got it"..

Rob