How Do You Define - Spiritual Enlightenment

Greetings!

I'm bringing this from another thread as it seems like a worthy "multi-faith" topic

How do you define Spiritual Enlightenment?
Is it learned through the teachings of certain faiths, or is it experiential?
What does 'Spiritual Enlightenment' look like lived out?

Perhaps more interesting.... how does your specific faith view spiritual enlightenment?

Peace!

Sakhaiva wrote:
How do you define Spiritual Enlightenment?

Understanding.

Sakhaiva wrote:
Is it learned through the teachings of certain faiths, or is it experiential?

Both.

Sakhaiva wrote:

What does 'Spiritual Enlightenment' look like lived out?

Before one is spiritually enlightened, mountains are mountains, and rivers are rivers.
When one is becoming spiritually enlightened, mountains are no longer mountains, and rivers are no longer rivers.
When one is spiritually enlightened, mountains are again mountains, and rivers are again rivers.

Sakhaiva wrote:
Perhaps more interesting.... how does your specific faith view spiritual enlightenment?

Pragmatically.

Mother Mary defines it as "Being at peace, no matter what is going on around you." I like that.

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Mother Mary defines it as "Being at peace, no matter what is going on around you." I like that.

But I think that is only part of it.

I think a more accurate description of it would be that one is not disturbed by that which is going on around them.

all

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Mother Mary defines it as "Being at peace, no matter what is going on around you." I like that.

But I think that is only part of it.

I think a more accurate description of it would be that one is not disturbed by that which is going on around them.

all

I'm missing the difference...?

It depends on how one views peace, and what one thinks that the effect on them which occurs around them is.

Ah, I see where you're going with that I think.

Enlightenment is a road, not a destination. Like Odin, we are all becoming, our growth and transformation continues at least until our deaths and perhaps beyond.

To say you are enlightened is to say that you are finished.

Along the way you learn to better enjoy and survive the moment of now, and better plan for the moments to come.

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Mother Mary defines it as "Being at peace, no matter what is going on around you." I like that.

But I think that is only part of it.

I think a more accurate description of it would be that one is not disturbed by that which is going on around them.

all

Do you define 'disturbed' as 'complete lack of response (meaning neither emotional nor physical)?

John T Mainer wrote:Enlightenment is a road, not a destination. Like Odin, we are all becoming, our growth and transformation continues at least until our deaths and perhaps beyond.

To say you are enlightened is to say that you are finished.

Along the way you learn to better enjoy and survive the moment of now, and better plan for the moments to come.

Thank you JT... I really like how you laid this out.

It often pains me that our Western society (seems to) no longer value our elders. If we are all becoming and growing until we pass into the unknown, then respect needs to be a part of the equation. Instead, it feels as though we mistrust our elders.

Sakhaiva wrote:

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Mother Mary defines it as "Being at peace, no matter what is going on around you." I like that.

But I think that is only part of it.

I think a more accurate description of it would be that one is not disturbed by that which is going on around them.

all

Do you define 'disturbed' as 'complete lack of response (meaning neither emotional nor physical)?

Kind of.

But it wouldn't qualify if one just sat and was undisturbed and didn't pay any attention to what was going on around them. Might as well be dead then.

all

You know, I don't have a concept of this in my religion. You either have a connection/relationship with the gods or you don't.

Once heard it said that the unenlightened discuss what enlightenment is. The enlightened simply are.

Some merit to that view, IMO.

Those who can, do, those who can't, teach?

Ummm...no.

I think I've given adequate evidence here that unlike some unfortunates out there, I DO have command of Standard English...and used to teach high school English and speech. And yes, teachers get damn' tired of hearing that old saw...

Although, honest to God, I once walked into a colleague's classroom to ask her something and noticed she'd written a warning to her students on the chalkboard about their forthcoming composition,

"Mispelled words will not be tollerated."

I gestured toward the board, laughed and said something like, "If an order doesn't do it, a joke might."

She looked blank and said, "What do you mean, a joke?"

It quickly became evident that SHE didn't know she'd misspelled two words in that!

I didn't want to know how she thought she could evaluate students' work for spelling! (Her knowledge of grammar was execrable, too.)

DotNotInOz wrote:

I think I've given adequate evidence here that unlike some unfortunates out there, I DO have command of Standard English...and used to teach high school English and speech. And yes, teachers get damn' tired of hearing that old saw...

That is why I said it, Dot....

DotNotInOz wrote:Once heard it said that the unenlightened discuss what enlightenment is. The enlightened simply are.

Some merit to that view, IMO.

I think that's fairly true, but the unenlightened need to talk about it to make it a realizable and workable goal.

For me, enlightenment is a moment that flees once you realize it is there and snatch at it.

In other words, it's not a permanent state or a place; it's something that happens and is then suddenly lost. Buddhist practice, for me, is trying to live in such a way as to increase the frequency of those moments, but I don't ever expect to be an "enlightened being" for any real length of time.

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

DotNotInOz wrote:

I think I've given adequate evidence here that unlike some unfortunates out there, I DO have command of Standard English...and used to teach high school English and speech. And yes, teachers get damn' tired of hearing that old saw...

That is why I said it, Dot....

However, I don't see what you and I said as having the same meaning, all.

It's my quite likely flawed understanding that someone who actually is enlightened wouldn't care one way or the other what's said about them.

All these little niggling concerns of the unenlightened have no impact upon them.

Sometimes, I suspect that the concept of being enlightened is akin in a way to that of heaven--an ideal state that gives hope and encouragement to people struggling to live halfway decent lives--but that probably doesn't exist.

Words get in the way when it comes to Spiritual beliefs. I have never met anyone who was really all that particularly enlightened, though I have met one or two people who were brilliant. I suspect the words are what is holding a lot of people back from the ineffable.

DotNotInOz wrote:

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

DotNotInOz wrote:

I think I've given adequate evidence here that unlike some unfortunates out there, I DO have command of Standard English...and used to teach high school English and speech. And yes, teachers get damn' tired of hearing that old saw...

That is why I said it, Dot....

However, I don't see what you and I said as having the same meaning, all.

It's my quite likely flawed understanding that someone who actually is enlightened wouldn't care one way or the other what's said about them.

All these little niggling concerns of the unenlightened have no impact upon them.

Sometimes, I suspect that the concept of being enlightened is akin in a way to that of heaven--an ideal state that gives hope and encouragement to people struggling to live halfway decent lives--but that probably doesn't exist.

It is hard to say things so that people will understand where you are coming from. We probably just aren't on the same wave length. I thought of what you said as funny. We are all slightly hypocritical for being a bunch of unenlightened people sitting around and talking about what enlightenment is. I suddenly had an image of a bunch of fat out of shape guys interpreting what the quarterback should have done for the play in question.

I came back with the "those who can, do, those who can't teach" precisely because I don't believe it is true, and I know you don't either. Sometimes those who can't do, teach, and sometimes those who teach, teach precisely because they are the absolute best in their fields and they want to share that knowledge.


Again, we are shown the limits of a text based discussion. If we were having the discussion face to face, you would have heard my sarcasm. Actually, if we were having the discussion face to face, I'd probably just look at ya, raise an eyebrow and grunt. I'm kind of laconic that way, IRL.

We are all slightly hypocritical for being a bunch of unenlightened people sitting around and talking about what enlightenment is. I suddenly had an image of a bunch of fat out of shape guys interpreting what the quarterback should have done for the play in question.

Very, very well said ALL; what a GREAT visual!

Grasping at the wind is the best we can do until there's no more need of grasping at all.

Now scoot over a bit and pass me the popcorn.....

ZenYen wrote:For me, enlightenment is a moment that flees once you realize it is there and snatch at it.

In other words, it's not a permanent state or a place; it's something that happens and is then suddenly lost. Buddhist practice, for me, is trying to live in such a way as to increase the frequency of those moments, but I don't ever expect to be an "enlightened being" for any real length of time.

ZenYen, you've just described my meditation practice. Just when there's a moment where meditation might actually be occurring, my mind says *look at me, I'm doing it!*


....and suddenly I'm back to 'sitting for meditation'

Sakhaiva wrote:

ZenYen wrote:For me, enlightenment is a moment that flees once you realize it is there and snatch at it.

In other words, it's not a permanent state or a place; it's something that happens and is then suddenly lost. Buddhist practice, for me, is trying to live in such a way as to increase the frequency of those moments, but I don't ever expect to be an "enlightened being" for any real length of time.

ZenYen, you've just described my meditation practice. Just when there's a moment where meditation might actually be occurring, my mind says *look at me, I'm doing it!*


....and suddenly I'm back to 'sitting for meditation'

It does go that way sometimes ... !

Sakhaiva wrote:

We are all slightly hypocritical for being a bunch of unenlightened people sitting around and talking about what enlightenment is. I suddenly had an image of a bunch of fat out of shape guys interpreting what the quarterback should have done for the play in question.

Very, very well said ALL; what a GREAT visual!

Grasping at the wind is the best we can do until there's no more need of grasping at all.

Now scoot over a bit and pass me the popcorn.....

Why does the Dalai Lama wear glasses?