There comes a point in every man's life...

I guess I've reached a place recently most atheists hit, where I feel like I've hit rock bottom (in terms of the spiritual stuff). I've been on a steady downhill slide lately and tonight have been sitting here praying, gave up and said out loud, What's the point? Nobody's listening anyway.

Mintie wrote:

Thanks Mintie!

Sorry to hear that you are struggling with your spirituality, TED. Yes, I did go through something like that at one time, many years ago. When I started to doubt everything I was taught to believe... it was a scary and uneasy time for me. But it didn't take long before it became an almost...dare I say.. "born again" experience. Once I realized and embraced the fact that I was an atheist, my mind truly opened up to everything.

I'm not saying that you are heading down that road... I really don't know... but atheism is not a dead end or "bottom" when it comes to spirituality. But instead, it frees your mind once and for all, imo.

Rob

(((((((((((TED))))))))))))

My 2 cents: I spent a whole lot of time praying to something/someone hoping that someday somehow I'd get a response, that maybe I'd prove myself or get it right somehow and finally get what I needed in return. Been there, got that t-shirt, don't want another.

IMO this worshipper/worshippee thing is a two way street. Humans have a right to get what they need out of the arrangement and if a person isn't getting that, it isn't a test, it has stopped being a two way relationship. You deserve to get what you need and if you aren't getting it, maybe it is time to re-examine your beliefs and maybe to put your energy somewhere else.

I see no reason to follow/believe in something that has not given you proof through UPG or by satisfying spiritual needs. There is not a thing wrong with not believing in anything, until or unless you ever have reason to do so.

I think the first step is to start believing that you really are worthy as a human and deserve to be treated well by a spiritual being, if any exist. It is sort of like evaluating your human relationships and getting out of and refusing to get into any more abusive ones, something that takes a lot of strength.

Thanks Rob. I didn't mean to imply atheism was a 'bottom', that probably wasn't worded very well. Just meant that I'm at an emotional bottom right now. I hope to stay a panentheist but have been pretty down-and-out lately.

Thanks also Gilly! Being panentheist means of course I don't really have a personal god, but I do ask the Universe from time to time that perhaps I'd like one, but none show up.

Haven't you said that what you call spiritual guides do show up, TED?

(((((((((Tiger))))))) Don't give up sweetie, You are not alone, not here on Earth or in the Universe.

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:I guess I've reached a place recently most atheists hit, where I feel like I've hit rock bottom (in terms of the spiritual stuff). I've been on a steady downhill slide lately and tonight have been sitting here praying, gave up and said out loud, What's the point? Nobody's listening anyway.

In Hrolf Kraki's saga, the great king found himself betrayed by his sister, and by rebellious vassals. Surrounded with only his dozen huscarls, he knew that there was no possibility of survival, no way out. Do you know what question he asked of his men?

If we are to fall, what will make the best story?

Not what is the point, for they knew the point; they will do as they choose, and let all the worlds dare oppose them! That night, surounded by their enemies, they feasted, they boasted, and they sang. The king gave his golden arm rings and jewels to each of his men, praising them for deeds of past glory, or laughing with them remembering past humorous mistakes. At dawn they sallied forth, and cut a path to glory over the bodies of their foes. Each fell, but every man who felled them carried forever to his grave, and repeated forever from his lips the glory of him who fell.

No man recalls what churl took those rings from the heroes corpses, but all remember the names of Hrolf Kraki's huscarls, and the deeds for which those arm-rings were given.

If there is no world beyond this, there is no life beyond this, no purpose beyond your desires, ask yourself this; when the deeds of your life are sung, how do you want it said? If no one is listening, and all that remains is the echo of your deeds, will you pass with silence heavy upon you, or the thunder of your passage upon this earth?

In the end, if we are nothing more than mayfly flickers in the dark, I chose to blaze like a torch, not gutter as a candle. We all go down into the dark, but it is our choice if that is also where we live.

gillyflower wrote:Haven't you said that what you call spiritual guides do show up, TED?

I had thought so, but I've got to a point where I wonder if it's all just wishful thinking.

MaineCaptain wrote:(((((((((Tiger))))))) Don't give up sweetie, You are not alone, not here on Earth or in the Universe.

Thanks MC.

John T Mainer wrote:
In Hrolf Kraki's saga, the great king found himself betrayed by his sister, and by rebellious vassals. Surrounded with only his dozen huscarls, he knew that there was no possibility of survival, no way out. Do you know what question he asked of his men?

If we are to fall, what will make the best story?

Not what is the point, for they knew the point; they will do as they choose, and let all the worlds dare oppose them! That night, surounded by their enemies, they feasted, they boasted, and they sang. The king gave his golden arm rings and jewels to each of his men, praising them for deeds of past glory, or laughing with them remembering past humorous mistakes. At dawn they sallied forth, and cut a path to glory over the bodies of their foes. Each fell, but every man who felled them carried forever to his grave, and repeated forever from his lips the glory of him who fell.

No man recalls what churl took those rings from the heroes corpses, but all remember the names of Hrolf Kraki's huscarls, and the deeds for which those arm-rings were given.

If there is no world beyond this, there is no life beyond this, no purpose beyond your desires, ask yourself this; when the deeds of your life are sung, how do you want it said? If no one is listening, and all that remains is the echo of your deeds, will you pass with silence heavy upon you, or the thunder of your passage upon this earth?

In the end, if we are nothing more than mayfly flickers in the dark, I chose to blaze like a torch, not gutter as a candle. We all go down into the dark, but it is our choice if that is also where we live.

Thanks John. That story was really nice. One of the thoughts that went through my mind the other day was, once I'm dead, no one will even know or care that I lived. (How did you know that?)

BTW, sorry if this wasn't the right board to post this in, feel free to move it elsewhere if you think it belongs somewhere else. The post just sprang from the idea of "maybe there's nothing else out there." I know it probably made a few jaws drop, since I'm a proponent of the idea of personal gods like in paganism.

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:BTW, sorry if this wasn't the right board to post this in, feel free to move it elsewhere if you think it belongs somewhere else. The post just sprang from the idea of "maybe there's nothing else out there." I know it probably made a few jaws drop, since I'm a proponent of the idea of personal gods like in paganism.

I bring up UPG constantly, because in the end, it is all we have. My UPG says one thing, Rob's says something else. And that's okay. Listen to your UPG, TED. It will never fail you, even if everything else does.

It is a question central to anyone who has ever been so crushed by the weight of events that they question the purpose of even standing, let alone stepping forward again. It is not important upon what path you had been walking, for this place lies upon every path. We all must face it eventually.

Marcus Aurelius said it 2000 years ago. See my signature below.

There sure is someone listening TED. YOU.

That point is not a bad point to hit. It's when you realize that you don't need to look any further than yourself.

Try this philosophic exercise. Go to an absolutely quite room and sit in there alone. For an hour call your name out. With emotion, without, singsong, deadpan. At first it feels silly but if you stick with it you start to get this unsettling feeling of hearing someone calling your name. It's you of course calling yourself but what happens is you start to enter a strange area where you slip out of the realm of "self".

I think maybe that what true prayer is. A connection without yourself. A conversation with your subconscious universe. So there is someone listening. You just need to remember who.

sory fur the crapy speling.

TED having a crisis of faith, call the Whaambulance!



Thanks Squirrel.

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:TED having a crisis of faith, call the Whaambulance!



Thanks Squirrel.

Snerk.

Tiger we all have a right to complain, and have crisis, that is what friends are for................one of the things

[/quote]One of the thoughts that went through my mind the other day was, once I'm dead, no one will even know or care that I lived. [/quote]

For what it's worth....I will know and care that you lived!!!

Aww Thanks Beribee!

Tiger, What Beribee said.

That and I often think that myself. If I suddenly died I am not sure anyone would notice.

Interesting.

HEY! What am I....chop suey??? I WOULD NOTICE!!!! (Can anyone hear me???)

The thing about noticing passing is the problem of the parable of the rock.

A rock is thrown into a still pond. As it passes through the surface of the water, and into the darkened deeps, it weeps for it passes without even notice. Ripples from its passage cross the lake and brush the stones on every shore, reaction from the stones ripples back across the lake, meeting the ripples of the birds disturbed by the stones passage, and the ripples of the fish startled by the same. Hours after the stone had passed, ripples still came and met from shores beyond sight at the passage of that single stone.

While the stone may think it passes unnoticed, the world knows different.

None here would pass unnoticed.

As one panthiest to another............I get that it is hard to understand............but what you are feeling and moving thru is very necessary to you and to the rest of the universe..............just the same as your delight and rapture in love making is a necessary part of the bigger picture.

Brother I am going thru my own little bit of hell over here too. I don't know what or how or why?????? But I know that there is something of value for me to gain in the process. What that is yet I can not say. But I do know that I am growing, like it or not as a result.

Anyways I'm rooting for you........Frog.