Must marriage be forever and ever?

whats the line from Billy Joel?

they are all sharing a drink called loneliness
buts its better than drinking alone

Dave, Tiger

See & thats all a lie, TED, & Dave...why you beaten yourselves up? Society got this finger pointing line going...ITS you, you, all YOU. There are some really cool people out there, & some really screwed up ones also. I'll bet $$'s to doughnuts, that TED, & Dave are really nice guys! Both have brains, easy on the eyes, probably kind hearted, love a laugh & good times. Have principles & manners that mark them as 'gentlmen.' They want their mates to be easy on the eyes, fun to be with, kind hearted, have principles & are mannerly. So far am I right, gentlemen?
But WOMEN on the other hand nowadays are so freakin "SAVE ME, cause I can't save myself, from myself." And those women that are waiting for that fairy tale ending where the knight in shining armor swoops down & saves her....is for for idiots.
It takes TWO to tango!
Marriage IS hard work, nothin worth anything is free, or easy.

thats not really my case

I'm always attracted to independent self-assertive women

it just turns out that I meet them in transition- I'm great for helping them move on (and we almost always remain friends) but I'm not where they want to end up

Independent & self assertive? YOU help them move on? Hmmm? I don't get the independent self assertiveness then? Dave? Divorce's???
Any who, seriously. I understand, see so you ARE a gentleman. Their loss Dave, not yours!

multiples for the ex wife
recent divorce for one ex gf
death of spouse for this last one

Are you saying (and I don't mean any offense) that you are Rebound Boy? If that is true then you perceive the women as being independent and assertive but that might be a mask for someone who is actually emotionally needy and unstable, wanting someone to make them feel good. They might not be ready for an intense relationship.

not the immediate rebound-the one that gets them back to their natural independent state at which point-they move on

I think a large part of the reason why so many relationships fail is people's unrealistic expectations.

We grow up seeing sappy movies where once people find each other, they live happily ever after. Fact is, it doesn't necessarily work out that way and certainly doesn't without daily effort.

The counselor I worked with after my last divorce told me that she estimated, based on what people told her, that most longterm relationships work pretty well for roughly ten years. After that, various factors keep people together--kids, mutual friends, relatives, plain old inertia--but there's nothing very fulfilling for either person by then.

Call it karma or whatever you like, but I honestly think there are some people who simply never will meet that fabled "one and only." In which case, you do better to play the hand life dealt you and build a satisfying solitary life.

I'm willing to believe that about the 10 years, Dot. Another factor, I think, is that after 10 years, many couples aren't couples anymore but a family and business unit. A friend who is a psychologist told me once that the actions of a person affect 5 generations in his opinion. People don't think about that much, but it is true. It really does matter what you do. It affects people that haven't even been born yet.

I think that it is best to play the hand you are dealt and learn to be happy with someone or without, always. I have had both and I have learned the different skills necessary for being alone, having a partner, and having a family, with or without a partner. Each state of being requires very different skills, different hats and honestly, I am grateful that I've experienced all of them. That's the way to learn how to be adaptable and resilient and comfortable with who you are.

Dot & Gilly great points to ponder. Any relationship has ups & downs, may it be parent/child sibling/sibling boss/employee or coworker/coworker or just friend/friend. They ae all relationships...some last forever some get cut short. We as a society have to fulfill ourselves, noone or nothing can do it for us.
Gilly, my strong headedness comes from a long generation of women that didn't take any crap off of a man. Reasons of infidelity, economy, support of children, or the Mob.
I for one told a certain man along time ago "I got rid of 1 man in my life already, I can & will do it again". It wasn't a threat, it was the brutal honest truth. I paid for the divorce, court cost, raised & supported my eldest son for years before John & I became a "relationship".
Getting back on Dots topic though. Society has changed and maybe not for the better. My mother, I & my oldest son are products of a divorce. All 3 of us didn't blame our parents for the hands we were dealt. I know of kids that are adults well into their 30's that still to this day want to lay blame on one or both of the parents, & can't deal w relationships themselves. Its sad, but true...they spend their entire lives hunting for a fulfillment that they THINK they lost, or got short changed, instead of making themselves happy & respecting themselves 1st.
On a side note Gilly, your skills & characteristics of wearing different hats through a lifetime....are the same of any goddess that I have known or read about!

DotNotInOz wrote:Hear, hear...what Ebon, MC and Gilly all said.

Hubby and I are agreed that you've a relationship likely to last when you can fart in bed comfortably, and the other person only complains when the fumes are noxious enough to make breathing hazardous.

It's a really workable relationship when you laugh and compete to see who can drive the other person out of bed without experiencing any "unfortunate mishaps."

Kat and I don't share a bed. We discovered very early in our relationship that A) both of us snore like a chainsaw going through metal; B) I tend to thrash about in my sleep and C) she tends to kick in her sleep. So we decided that the only way we could be sure of getting a decent night's sleep was to have seperate beds. Might seem weird but it works for us. The BBC once did a survey that found about half of couples surveyed would prefer to have seperate beds.

Er... not to pry, Ebon, but I thought you were gay?

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Er... not to pry, Ebon, but I thought you were gay?

lol, nope. I'm bisexual.

Oh, groovy.

Ebon wrote:

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Er... not to pry, Ebon, but I thought you were gay?

lol, nope. I'm bisexual.

The more, the merrier, eh?

DotNotInOz wrote:

Ebon wrote:

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Er... not to pry, Ebon, but I thought you were gay?

lol, nope. I'm bisexual.

The more, the merrier, eh?

That would be polygamy or possibly orgies. Being bisexual just means I'm romantically/sexually attracted to both genders. Essentially, I like who I like and don't worry too much about their physical gender.

That said, Kat and I do have a mutual arrangement whereby either of us is allowed to shag other people so long as it's just sex and the emotional bond remains just between ourselves. Neither of us have ever felt the need to excercise that but it's there, just in case it's ever needed.

Ebon wrote:

DotNotInOz wrote:

Ebon wrote:

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Er... not to pry, Ebon, but I thought you were gay?

lol, nope. I'm bisexual.

The more, the merrier, eh?

That would be polygamy or possibly orgies. Being bisexual just means I'm romantically/sexually attracted to both genders.

Well, yes, I understand that.

I somewhat feebly tried to imply that you likely have more options for partners in being attracted to both genders.

Sorry, I'm probably being overly defensive. I'm too used to the assumption that being bi means I'm more likely to cheat on my partner. Should have remembered who I was chatting with, mea culpa.

Heh. The preconception that we have to deal with is that people think polyamory is an open relationship of the sort you have--which they take as just an excuse to fuck other people. That we're more interested in other relationships--the emotional bonding--seems to be lost on most people.

Somehow, it seems many mono folk think cheating is OK, while open relationships that allow for outside sex or poly relationships that allow and encourage whole other relationships are horrible. go figure.

Davelaw wrote:

gillyflower wrote:The problem with that is that it takes two for marriage and to keep it going. One person can feel that it is a lifetime commitment for him or her while the other person might not have that level of commitment. In that case, one of them is going to be disappointed, but that person isn't going to know it until a little too late.

Been There
Done That
She Got the T-shirt

Fixed for accuracy

I believe love lasts forever. Marriage is temporary. Once you love someone, i think some part of you always belongs to them and them to you.

As far as being a parent .. . being married or not married does not have any bearing on how good or bad you are as a parent. I think I am a wonderful father and so do my kids. They are MY kids no matter who spawned them or raised them. I love them totally and completely.

I definitely do not think that parents should stay together just for the children. Parents are individuals with their own needs and the kids will eventually be gone and out of the house, then what ? Is staying together in a horrid unloving situation portraying the proper concept of love to a child ? I do not think so.

Vorrin wrote:

Davelaw wrote:

gillyflower wrote:The problem with that is that it takes two for marriage and to keep it going. One person can feel that it is a lifetime commitment for him or her while the other person might not have that level of commitment. In that case, one of them is going to be disappointed, but that person isn't going to know it until a little too late.

Been There
Done That
She Got the T-shirt

Fixed for accuracy

No, i kept the T-shirt/ she got the gas grill and the deep freezer

DotNotInOz wrote:

Ebon wrote:

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Er... not to pry, Ebon, but I thought you were gay?

lol, nope. I'm bisexual.

The more, the merrier, eh?

I always used to joke "doubles the chances of a date on Friday night, for sure."

TigersEyeDowsing wrote: I always used to joke "doubles the chances of a date on Friday night, for sure."

I once said that to a slightly slow guy in college. He paused for a moment and then said "That's not an orientation, that's just being greedy".