Must marriage be forever and ever?

I grant that studies seem to be showing that parents ought to make every effort to stay together until their kids are grown unless the relationship is so abusive or toxic that everyone is worse off trying to sustain it. It now appears that kids grow up with fewer emotional issues if they have both biological parents to help them do that. I expect that most of us would agree that parents who can put their kids' needs first and manage to stay together are doing something noble.

Which brings me to the question of why marriage needs to be thought of as "till death do us part" necessarily anymore. Was that ever such a great idea? I'm not sure.

So, I'm wondering if you feel that divorce has become too easy. Is it realistic to go into marriage thinking that it might not last a lifetime? Or is that, as people often argue, indicative that the couple are not sufficiently dedicated to keeping the marriage working? We've all heard the old saw that if you don't intend for it to be a lifetime partnership, don't get married!

Have things changed enough that thinking of marriage as having to be a lifetime commitment is unrealistic? Along with the growing acceptance of non-traditional couples and families, do we also need socially acceptable alternatives to lifelong commitments maybe?

:::: grumble, grumble ::::

Revise the second sentence to read, "It now appears that kids grow up with fewer emotional issues if they have both parents...etc." It occurred to me too late that the kids might be adopted or the result of some other technological marvel.

Duh, Dot!

The problem with that is that it takes two for marriage and to keep it going. One person can feel that it is a lifetime commitment for him or her while the other person might not have that level of commitment. In that case, one of them is going to be disappointed, but that person isn't going to know it until a little too late.

I think that the family unit with brothers providing for their sisters and their children, while both seek sexual partners elsewhere would be a more stable unit for children. That way sexual partners could come and go, while stability remains for the children.

I just came back from a walk and wanted to add this: as a genealogist I'm aware in the past that many men (and some women) had serial marriages. They married, the woman died often leaving them with a couple of small children and they remarried, had more children and that pattern might repeat. Some men, too, made their living marrying women, taking them to the cleaners and skipping town - hence the marriage bond. People did divorce but even easier was going west and starting fresh, leaving the spouse and kids long behind.

I think in the past marriage has been more looked on as a business arrangement and they didn't have quite the same expectations we do today. I think that television and the Lifetime channel has raised some generations who think that the only reason to get married is because you are infatuated and in lust with the other person. Unfortunately that wears off in a couple of years. That's what some people think of as love though and so they look for someone else who makes them feel that way.

Marriage is definitely an interesting beast, one that
has continuously gone through an evolution of development. The comment about
marriage be forever and ever made me chuckle because if you’re Mormon, that’s
the general idea. Married to your husband for all time and eternity…something
in my mind, that would get old pretty damn quick.


I think marriage is always being defined and redefined by
society. Change, the big word that is always happening in some manner.


While I don’t know if I’ll be around in fifty years, it
would still be interesting to see where society and culture go. I hope it’s in
a positive direction.

Have things changed enough that thinking of marriage as having to be a lifetime commitment is unrealistic? Along with the growing acceptance of non-traditional couples and families, do we also need socially acceptable alternatives to lifelong commitments maybe?

Wondering what others may think along these lines is primarily what prompted my asking.

Thoughts, anyone?

I'd like to think that marriage is a lifelong commitment. I personally believe that it is, and am fortunate that my boyfriend feels the same way. I don't think it is unrealistic; I think that our media, instant gratification society has become so inundated by immediate results and change that no one knows how to make anything last. If its not new, it old and therefore bad. I think that anythign worth it requires work, and marriage is just one of those things. Is that an unrealistic expectation? By today's standards: probably. I guess that makes me old-fashioned.
I think that society will become more tolerant of alternatives to lifelong commitments, but with STDs on the rise as a result of unsafe sexual practices it won't be any time soon. I think that people are irresponsible, and that much education is needed. (I'm not a proponent of abstinence only programs.)

Coming from the unmarried, but extremely romantic, I believe in forever. If I am blessed to be with the one who has my heart, I want it, not just for this life, but for every life to come.

Please do not hit me anyone. This is the one of the few things that has stayed with me from my earliest memories. The belief in forever.

Of course I also know I followed someone back from the other side, and this life is not worth the trip, without that belief and continuing hope.

Any relationship, I think, should last as long as it does and no more--we accumulate wounds and scars when we allow relationships to linger when they no longer live. Humans, in general, have never been given to lifelong monogamy--serial monogamy, primary mating couples with lovers on the side, and multiple partners have been more common than single, lifelong pairings.

When one considers the sheer variety of possibilities for most anything human, one can understand that no single approach will work for all--or even most--of us, and that includes marriage arrangements. Some will pair happily 'til death part them. Others will pair up for varying lengths. Others are best suited to no long-term pairings.

When it comes to marriage and divorce, I think it far too easy to get married and far too difficult to divorce these days. I also think it should be considered normal to cohabitate with a potential marriage partner prior to considering marriage.

Lets bring this topic back to life!

"Must marriage be forever and ever?"

Me, personally? No. Marriage doesn't have to be forever & ever.

I do ponder & tend to side with Maine Captain though. I do believe strongly that past lives partners & associations do tend to enter all of our lives in one degree or another. Its strange that John & I (whom are not Ozzie & Harriett) still have our own independence within our marriage. Sort of like He doesn't mind, & it don't matter to me. But when push comes to shove we'll stand toe to toe to get through the bullshit in life.
We have this running joke that we are more sister & brother in our relationship then best friends. I'm from the North he's from the South. I'm a slum child, he's a part time country boy. Our raising was total opposite, his parents were in tact, mine divorced. His Dad, is French descendent, his mom English. My Dad, is Scottish/Swedish/Indian, my mom Italian. But through some geneology it gets really eerie. (Same time frame)... His dads family passed from France to Venice. Some of my mothers ancestors moved from south Italy to North Italy around Venice. (Again same time frame)...His mothers family was in England when my fathers ancestors left Scotland & went to England. Arriving in the states a hundred yrs apart. There are a few of his fathers ancestors that left Louisiana & made a home near where my mothers people are originally settled here in the states. There is a member of my mothers family in New Orleans where his fathers family settled. What I'm saying here is both of our families have crossed each others paths for hundreds of years both in Europe & here in the states on countless occasions! It just seems too coincidental that maybe John & I did know each other in past lives.

gillyflower wrote:The problem with that is that it takes two for marriage and to keep it going. One person can feel that it is a lifetime commitment for him or her while the other person might not have that level of commitment. In that case, one of them is going to be disappointed, but that person isn't going to know it until a little too late.

Been There
Done That
Have the T-shirt

Got that t-shirt, too...wasn't fun.

No, it doesn't HAVE to be forever, 'til death do us part, but what's the point if you're going to go in with the "Unless I find something I like better" attitude?
If you're going into it thinking it might fail, it will.

People, too often today, mistake an orgasm for love. Marriages would last longer if people thought with their minds instead of their genitals. Sex is important, but you have to KNOW the person you are marrying. Knowing where the "g-spot" is is not going to keep any relationship alive for long.

Ode to Tina:

Sex is good, and love is great
But put the dinner on our plate-
I'm a good girl who's not too fast
Because what I want better last.
Before you expect to pounce my gspot
Clean those dishes, mister, and wash that teapot!

I clean the dishes... he does the laundry. Don't have a teapot, it's a waste of money and cabinet space.

Bad Tiger!

Oh did he mean a literal tea-pot?

I thot it was another way of saying:

You gotta lick it
before we can kick it

Bear in mind that when the phrase "'til death do you part" was included in the marriage service, the average lifespan was perhaps forty.

Is divorce too easy? I dunno. I mean, I was raised by my grandmother while my parents were notching up their current total of five marriages between them, it's not like I have a normal background to compare it to. And since my faith doesn't make marriage a requirement of being in love and there's little benefit legally, I see little point in getting married. I love Kat, I know she loves me (except when my illness is at it's worst, then I doubt it), neither of us belong to a congregation which could celebrate our union so what would be the point of going through a ceremony?

I think part of the problem is that our media tends to focus on falling in love but not very much on staying in love. Granted, I don't watch an awful lot of tv but how many happily married couples can you think of in tv? Zoe and Wash on Firefly, of course; Sherridan and Delenn (although we see very little of their future). Monica and Chandler on Friends (although again, we see their marriage but very little of their married life), Peter & Lois of Family Guy and, of course, Homer & Marge. I'm sure I've forgotten a few but the point is that most of our media is focused around the early days of love, around what my grandmother would have called "courtship" and very little on the fact that staying married is hard bloody work! You have to adjust to thinking as "we" instead of "I"; to the fact that your time is no longer exclusively your own. Even your sex life needs work to keep it from becoming dull (although that can be as simple as trying a new position once in a while). That reckless, intoxicating rush of hormones that you experiance when you first fall in love doesn't last forever but I think many people expect it to.

Ironically, I think the most accurate portrayal of marriage on tv lately is Family Guy. Peter and Lois have problems, they argue, bicker, have money troubles, get sexually bored but they work at their marriage, putting in the time and effort to get it back on course.

I don't think people know how to stay in love. sometimes I don't think people know how to love.
You have to put the other person first. Of course there is a lot more too it, you can not allow yourself to be a door mat either. It is about balance, so is life.

There is so much to a successful relationship that lasts, First the two involved have to really care for one another. And then there is the learning all the other things that help you get a long.
These things have been forgotten by many, or never known in the first place

Love and being in love should last forever. Should marriage, only if it really works out.
Relationship management and parenting classes should be part of every school day. Obviously not the parenting classes until later, (not much later, but later).
But coping with people should be. And learning that life is about all of us, not just ones self.

Rant over

That's a rant after my own heart MC. Well said.

On another note, I don't think tea pots are a waste of space... if one wishes to brew their loose leaf, then one requires a teapot (with a nice long spout so it won't drip)

mmmm, I loves me the well-brewed tea.

On a final note, the queen ought to come first.

Marriage is hard. The first three years, IMO, are very difficult indeed. That's when you learn to make it work and some people never do, or it works poorly. Children are a blessing - and also a complication because the focus shifts to them and sometimes that doesn't work to a couple's advantage. I think that people believe that they are going to be "in love" all the time and happy if they marry for romantic love and that rarely happens. There are going to be periods of your marriage where you are not happy and when you must work hard to remember why you even like the other person. Every so often you must reinvent your marriage and your partnership as circumstances and people change and different needs rise and sink in importance. It is really hard to accept that you can't have it all.

Hear, hear...what Ebon, MC and Gilly all said.

Hubby and I are agreed that you've a relationship likely to last when you can fart in bed comfortably, and the other person only complains when the fumes are noxious enough to make breathing hazardous.

It's a really workable relationship when you laugh and compete to see who can drive the other person out of bed without experiencing any "unfortunate mishaps."

What Dot said.

I usually win those battles too... I have driven the DOG out of the room.

I used to think I knew how it all worked and I found out I was bad wrong. Since I have absolutely no idea about love I'll instead share with you my brass coffee warmer.



(Well, okay, this isn't mine EXACTLY but close enough. Damned if I'm gonna go snap a pic, download it, resize it, and upload it when I can find something that's a very close fit.)

So I don't actually use it, since I don't make coffee at home, but it is pretty.

*Sits in corner quietly*

gillyflower wrote:Marriage is hard. The first three years, IMO, are very difficult indeed. That's when you learn to make it work and some people never do, or it works poorly.

I've never made it past two in any relationship or marriage;no wonder I'm so fucked up.





joins TED in corner

Brother Dave.