No, not everyone is your religion

A person I know lost a child not that long ago and is tired of all the people who say things like "I know how you feel - I lost my (dog, cat, hamster)." My friend has lost pets too and he doesn't think it compares, not to say that losing a beloved pet isn't painful. Anyway. After he posted it, people started arguing (gently) with him about it, then a Christian comes in with everything dies, God sends us love, which okay I don't really get how that is supposed to be comforting. But what really gets me is that I know my friend isn't Christian. Why do some people assume that everyone is of their religion?

Rant over.

Been there. And they always seem surprised when you say, but I am not Christian and completely disagree with you.

I don't think I could tell someone who lost a child that I know how they feel. I have never lost a child, but I will keep your friend in my thoughts. (((Gilly's Friend))))

gillyflower wrote:But what really gets me is that I know my friend isn't Christian. Why do some people assume that everyone is of their religion?

Easy-peasy, because such typically think that everyone OUGHT to be a Christian.

Everyone who is not of their religion, is obviously being deceived and so they need to know the truth. Therefore their comments pertaining to how people ought to deal with their grief by placing their trust in her deity, makes sense to her.

Typical true believer.

Besides...WHEN God become "Christian"???

Perhaps if y'all were a little LESS eager to jump on Xtians you might realize that "God" is not JUST Christian.
But then, what do I know I'm a lowly Christian.

I try to be tolerant... Too bad MY religion doesn't get the same respect and tolerance that I extend to yours.

But Marie, "God" is a Christian concept. "god" is not.

It's not really that people are mean when they say it, it's just their not thinking any different. Which is part of the problem. Most of them never think any different.

When trauma happens.... the truth is that words will always fall short.

Maybe I'm different than most others.... what I would be ranting about is not, so much, the reference to God inasmuch as what the other people had previously said (though trauma is not the time for theology). Meaning, if I lost one of my children, and someone said 'I know how you feel because (fill in the blank)' .... I shudder at the blackness such comments would cause in my spirit (even with the understanding of good motives). I shudder because it could never be true - only a person truly knows the burdens they personally carry.

A woman I have known for over 6 years suddenly passed away and I just learned about it last night. We sang in choir together... she always was the first to "talk flute" with me when I performed. An amazing woman who lived a very hard life, she had her PhD in Psychology and earned her BA from Julliard in flute performance. In addition to the pain of knowing she is gone forever, I also learned that she lost her life due to human error... specifically drug interactions (from her recent knee surgery.) Words fail me... the best thing I can do is to honor my friend's passing spirit the best way I am able.... not with advise or attempts to minimize, but by letting the survivors know that the lost one is remembered and was loved... letting the survivors know that they, themselves, are remembered and loved.

The topic is not new - the entire book of Job (my favorite) is about this very subject.

Maybe to get myself back to the specific topic (I went off topic again, didn't I.)

As a CNA I will be trained to - in cases such as these - to first learn what a person's faith is and then respond according to their belief systems.

(doh! I need to work on staying on topic, sorry Gilly.)

And she could see the capital "G"?

Again, we can't all be expected to 1. KNOW the religious leanings, or lack thereof of every person we know or 2. learn EVERY SINGLE phrase of sympathy in every religion.
She MEANT it kindly and you people just HAVE to tear it apart.
Just accept she meant well and move on. Good god, you people are entirely too sensitive at times.

tmarie64 wrote:And she could see the capital "G"?

Again, we can't all be expected to 1. KNOW the religious leanings, or lack thereof of every person we know or 2. learn EVERY SINGLE phrase of sympathy in every religion.

No, you're not.

tmarie64 wrote:
She MEANT it kindly and you people just HAVE to tear it apart.
Just accept she meant well and move on. Good god, you people are entirely too sensitive at times.

It's a learned behavior.

Do you need examples? Seriously, there was a commercial on the radio for Woodhouse Ford reminding us to put "Christ back in Christmas this year". Not on a Christian station, on a regular station.

I drive down the highway, and see a bill board that says "Jesus, I trust in you".

The paper has a section devoted to Christianity called spirituality every saturday.

Should I go on?

I have one place I can gripe. The internet. That's it. One place. If I gripe in public, I lose my business. I don't have a church to go to where I am surrounded by people of similar beliefs. My family won't listen, and my friends don't want to hear it. Marie, I like you, you're a good person, and I respect you, but if you've got a problem with us getting on the internet and complaining to other people of like mind, I'm going to tell you where you can stick your complaint, and it ain't a happy place.

all

Sakhaiva...ummmm...what's a CNA?

Just because someone means what they say kindly doesn't mean it's received as intended. There are lots of comforting words that don't involve references to deities. Use those instead and avoid possibly giving offense.

DotNotInOz wrote:Sakhaiva...ummmm...what's a CNA?

A certified nurse's assistant.

It's a rather lowly position, but very good if you like caring for people in the most human of ways.

Just because someone means what they say kindly doesn't mean it's
received as intended. There are lots of comforting words that don't
involve references to deities. Use those instead and avoid possibly
giving offense.

Well said & agreed.

It wasn't a woman who said it, it was a man and the funeral service for the little boy wasn't Christian, on his Facebook page it clearly says that the father is Pagan, and since it was written, there was a capital God. J and his wife let it pass but the thread was about the insensitivity of people and that fit right in there.

He probably meant well, just as did the people who said "I know how you feel because I lost my dog last year." Both husband and wife were trying to tell people to please not to say things like that. In their experience, losing their only child was not like losing a pet and it hurt them.

I don't go around saying "Goddess bless you" to people who don't believe in a goddess and I don't assume that everyone wants to hear it especially when they are emotionally upset. But I suspect that I am more upset by the way he put it. I mean a God bless you wouldn't be too bad, but telling a bereaved couple that everything dies, that's why God brings Love? Don't. Say. That.

Really.

tmarie64 wrote:And she could see the capital "G"?

Again, we can't all be expected to 1. KNOW the religious leanings, or lack thereof of every person we know or 2. learn EVERY SINGLE phrase of sympathy in every religion.
She MEANT it kindly and you people just HAVE to tear it apart.
Just accept she meant well and move on. Good god, you people are entirely too sensitive at times.

If you do not know a persons faith, then it would be wise to keep faith out of your response. Unsolicited platitudes of other peoples belief, like comments equating your loss of a child with their loss of a pet, may well be offered in a feeling of sympathy, but their nature trivializes the loss, insults the dead, and gives the grieving in their pain a slap they can at last answer back in kind.

"You have my sympathies for your loss, is there anything I can help with to free you up to help with your family?" Is my response. I do not bring my gods, or theirs into it. I do not, in fact cannot, know how this loss is affecting them. I can let them know that I care about them, understand they are hurting, and am willing to help take some of life's trivial crap off their plate while they deal with the loss.

If they want to delve into the spirituality of death, then I will aid them as any priest would with the training and wisdom my path has given me, but I do not offer unsolicited.

John T Mainer wrote:
If you do not know a persons faith, then it would be wise to keep faith out of your response. Unsolicited platitudes of other peoples belief, like comments equating your loss of a child with their loss of a pet, may well be offered in a feeling of sympathy, but their nature trivializes the loss, insults the dead, and gives the grieving in their pain a slap they can at last answer back in kind.

I ended up quitting a women's club several years ago because I was told to "just understand they mean well" when I complained to the officers about other members repeatedly telling me, "Jesus loves you anyway," when I'd mention that I'm not Christian and would rather they not use such religious references when trying to support and encourage me.

I think John is absolutely correct in what he says above.

I regard expecting someone else to understand that you're well-intended when you express your own religious sentiments to someone whose beliefs (or lack thereof) you do not know as both inconsiderate and ill-mannered. That is especially so when the person to whom you're speaking is grieving.

DotNotInOz wrote:

John T Mainer wrote:
If you do not know a persons faith, then it would be wise to keep faith out of your response. Unsolicited platitudes of other peoples belief, like comments equating your loss of a child with their loss of a pet, may well be offered in a feeling of sympathy, but their nature trivializes the loss, insults the dead, and gives the grieving in their pain a slap they can at last answer back in kind.

I ended up quitting a women's club several years ago because I was told to "just understand they mean well" when I complained to the officers about other members repeatedly telling me, "Jesus loves you anyway," when I'd mention that I'm not Christian and would rather they not use such religious references when trying to support and encourage me.

I think John is absolutely correct in what he says above.

I regard expecting someone else to understand that you're well-intended when you express your own religious sentiments to someone whose beliefs (or lack thereof) you do not know as both inconsiderate and ill-mannered. That is especially so when the person to whom you're speaking is grieving.

I agree with and understand what you say. And DOT, I would have left the women's group too. Too bad people have to be disrespectful.

Believe me when I say that I've walked away from my share of *women's groups* for very similar reasons... especially women's Bible studies friends have invited me to over the years. (Inter-faith relations can be a messy thing, but at times I fear intra-faith relations can be even messier.)

BTW, JT must be a carpenter because he has hit yet another nail straight on the head. Well said John.

Sakhaiva wrote:(Inter-faith relations can be a messy thing, but at times I fear intra-faith relations can be even messier.)

No lie! That's the main reason why I'm no longer interested in getting into church membership...or even into churches but for weddings, funerals and the occasional social event.

I don't know what it is about churchgoing that seems to bring out the pettiness and power-grubbing in so many people, often to the detriment of whatever values and ideals the church says it affirms. Baffles me no end.

I understand the sensitivity of those who see their faith being attacked. I've done that before on here and wish to remain unoffending to them.

I think that, especially in the United States, most people assume that a person is either a christian church goer, were raised in the church, or at least understand it the same as the ardent follower. I have people talk God with me believing that I still am a christian, and I find it best to let them say what they will, and then move on.

Case in point, I've been out of work for a long time now, and my brother was telling me how much I need to depend on God for a job, like he did. He left me a lengthy message speaking about this, and I just thanked him for his words, but refrained from speaking the way I would like to. He lost a job, at the beginning of the economic downturn, and though he was remaining faithful to his god, and in his work for the church, and in tithes, he was without work for a year and a half. He eventually found a job because he was asked to play golf for a small tournament, and the guy he played with was a christian who soon after hired my brother. However, about a year later, this same guy fired my brother for "not performing up to the goals of the company [which my brother said he did]. He was without a job for a few weeks, but got another job. How? Because someone from his church knew someone who was looking for someone, and he hired my brother. This all to say, . . . it is fine if my brother wants to believe that God had a hand in it, but for the most part, he just happened to be involved with a church with connections.

My point is, . . . sometimes it is best to just let them say what makes them feel like they contributed . . . because it is just them wanting to make another person feel better, or give them hope. Those of us who are not of that religion, . . . or of no religion at all, can appreciate the words, even though we ultimately reject the theology.

((((DeavonReye)))))

Your brother forgets the Biblical quote "time and chance happen to all."

(I suppose telling him to read Ecclesiastes would not be helpful.)

I agree that it is easier to just let it pass, take the thought behind it (good wishes) and let the rest go. That's usually what I do because I don't like strife with strangers. The thing is though Deavon, I don't think that I am doing them any favors because they are just going to go on thinking that is appropriate in all situations when clearly it isn't. But then there is the group of people who are also going to go on saying to people who just lost a young child "I know how you feel, I lost my cat." So in the end, maybe it is just a matter of people who don't know how to respond appropriately or who have never been taught how.

gillyflower wrote:So in the end, maybe it is just a matter of people who don't know how to respond appropriately or who have never been taught how.

I think Elizabeth Kubler Ross's 'Death and Dying' should be required reading. It's a topic people refuse to discuss (and try to minimize)... yet the reality is that at some point ... crossing over, if you will, is our future.

gillyflower wrote:I agree that it is easier to just let it pass, take the thought behind it (good wishes) and let the rest go. That's usually what I do because I don't like strife with strangers. The thing is though Deavon, I don't think that I am doing them any favors because they are just going to go on thinking that is appropriate in all situations when clearly it isn't. But then there is the group of people who are also going to go on saying to people who just lost a young child "I know how you feel, I lost my cat." So in the end, maybe it is just a matter of people who don't know how to respond appropriately or who have never been taught how.

I think that, most of the time, people don't know what to say to people, . . . and pull out things they have heard over and over again, such as the OP stated. But I agree, perhaps a person should FIRST know a person's religious convictions before speaking. It CAN tend to offend someone while they are already in a grief situation.

Now, my brother has no idea about my beliefs. He probably still thinks that I am a christian, . . . and I don't want to have "THAT conversation" with him.

DeavonReye wrote:

gillyflower wrote:I agree that it is easier to just let it pass, take the thought behind it (good wishes) and let the rest go. That's usually what I do because I don't like strife with strangers. The thing is though Deavon, I don't think that I am doing them any favors because they are just going to go on thinking that is appropriate in all situations when clearly it isn't. But then there is the group of people who are also going to go on saying to people who just lost a young child "I know how you feel, I lost my cat." So in the end, maybe it is just a matter of people who don't know how to respond appropriately or who have never been taught how.

I think that, most of the time, people don't know what to say to people, . . . and pull out things they have heard over and over again, such as the OP stated. But I agree, perhaps a person should FIRST know a person's religious convictions before speaking. It CAN tend to offend someone while they are already in a grief situation.

Now, my brother has no idea about my beliefs. He probably still thinks that I am a christian, . . . and I don't want to have "THAT conversation" with him.

I don't know. I found it easier to be open. Why bury resentment at comments honestly offered by those you have given no chance to accept you as what you are? You may choose not to respond, but that is not the same as reacting positively as you would had they offered wishes in a form you could accept gladly, rather than suffer silently. Some people will not accept and continue to push. Some will simply accept it as part of the person they respect, and thus strive to deal fairly with you to the limit of their understanding. You might be surprised at who will step up.

Even if I'm not left feeling resentful, I agree with John once again.

I think it important for those of us into lesser known religions or spiritual practices to speak up politely and to suggest gently that their religious wishes are not appropriate for everyone.

It's a matter of educating people, particularly in areas where nearly everyone IS Christian, that the days are long gone when one might assume fairly safely that a stranger, or even a friend, is both religious and Christian.

You don't have to get testy about it. A simple "While I appreciate your obviously heartfelt wishes, Jesus is not my deity. Your own words of comfort and encouragement without religious references will mean a great deal more to me." Keep your tone light and conclude with a smile.

Ya catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, as the old saying goes. You might even open up an honest discussion of just what your beliefs are...a real educational experience if you choose to provide one.

So, you would actually TELL someone.. "You meant well, but it doesn't matter because YOUR religion doesn't mean anything to me"? REALLY... You would REALLY do that????

If someone said that to me I would tell them, "Ok, Then forget it"... And turn around and walk away, and never look back.
How can you resent well wishes?