I don't want to be an Atheist, but . . .

I have been looking for a "new path" for a while, but am wondering if I will ever find it. Here's the thing. It seems that the common phrase, when it comes to pretty much any belief system, "it is a matter of faith" is put forth to me. I feel that if I am looking FOR the "supernatural", . . . the "god or goddess", . . . and if I am a type of person who needs to have something more than "faith" [ie. some sort of evidence], I may be disappointed.

My question is, have you, or were you ever in this place, not knowing if you'll ever find it, yet it became known to you in an undenyable way?

Faith is hard.

I've had lots of mini-supernatural experiences, of the psychic kind, which of course I tend to believe in as more natural...but that doesn't have anything to do with a belief system in and of itself. All religions have their esoteric followers.

To answer the direct question, I've never had something big of that nature known to me in an undeniable way. I don't think you have to be an "athiest". You can be a questioner, a person who says they're 'open' to different things. Heck, you can be a Universalist. Just being open to the possibility of something more doesn't demand atheism or blind faith, a good in between.

I've changed religions, formally, more than once. I think change is a part of growth.

It is very painful to lose one's belief, IMO and experience. There are articles written about how people who lose their faith feel that they have lost something very important and how they wish they could believe again. Yes, I've been there. I was resigned to not believing because all the religions I looked into seemed pretty silly to me.

I've told this story before. I was in a bookstore waiting for one of my daughters to pick out a calendar when happened to pick up one that had an article on the back about the difference between Christianity and Paganism. I was astonished because that (Paganism) was what I believed. I hadn't found a god but I found a world view that made sense to me.

From there I explored within Paganism until I found my path. It wasn't very long before I said a formal goodbye to the Christian god, no hard feelings, and I found my goddess. The god was waiting for me to accept the fact that the kind of god I thought I wanted wasn't the god I got. He was right! I was wrong.

DeavonReye wrote: My question is, have you, or were you ever in this place, not knowing if you'll ever find it, yet it became known to you in an undenyable way?

I'd have to answer that question, "Yes, I've been there and actually still am. No, I really haven't had what I'd call an undeniable experience with any deity."

With my "believe or else" Roman Catholic upbringing, I kept thinking that I either had to accept some belief system even though I couldn't rationally buy into it fully or I would just be stuck with atheism or agnosticism.

As do many questioner-thinker types, I thought for a while that atheism was going to be it for me. But then, I kept thinking of the various weird-but-unexplained experiences I've had and ultimately realized that the label that fits me best is agnostic. I'm not a hardcore agnostic (what some call an agnostic-atheist in that deity is believed to be both unknown and unknowable) but prefer to remain open to the possibility that people eventually will discover some sort of spirit being which has at least a portion of the characteristics we attribute to deities. I dunno.

I have my own uber-deity concept and tend to believe that the other spirits that most people call gods or goddesses are probably some form of spirit beings whose nature is unknown to humans at present. Maybe eventually we'll determine that these really do exist and are quite natural forms of being. Right now, it seems to me as immense as we know the Universe to be, there's more likelihood than not that we'll eventually learn of some form of existence that is entirely spirit. I dunno.

One reason I like ceremonial magick is that there's a lot of ritual which you can do or not as you wish. Sometimes, my Latin High Mass self wants ritual, so I do a bunch of that. Most of the time, I can take it or leave it. A religious magickian is typically a very independent sort whose responsibility it is to devise a relationship with whatever the person perceives deity to be, whether actual, metaphoric or something in between. That much, I do know.

I believe that the gods pick you; you don't pick the gods. And if no god calls to you, I don't really see that as an insult. If you are meant to have a god, they will let you know. Possibly with a clue by four!

If not, there is no harm in not having gods. You believe what you believe. You experience what you experience. And this is all just as valid as anyone else's. More, really, considering it is yours.

Sorry I can't be more help.

It really is a difficult place to be. I like the idea of the deity picking me, if he/she would. I'm completely open to it. I want to believe in what is beyond me. What doesn't work for me is a religion just because others believe it to be true [such as christianity]. This includes what my brother's and sister-in-law's path, creating a circle, calling the circles, having cakes and aile, etc. It is neat, what with the candles, and the occasional bon fire. . . . . but when I have sat in on it, I just can't get into it. . . . and a part of me finds it to be a little silly. If I were to have some sort of "experience" while there, that would at least get me thinking.

I've been on this search for a long time now and I even called out to "whoever is listening", this afternoon [God or Goddess]. Even the faery folk. I hope that I reach some sort of breakthrough.

You know, Deavon, something I've noticed about you over the years... and it's not meant to be an insult, mind you, so don't take it that way - But you've always been very busybusybusy. When you were in the church, you were busy trying to reconsile that with your ideas and desires for music, etc., busy trying to find a mate, busy trying to forget about the ex-mate, and now you're busy trying to find your new spiritual path. Have you ever considered just trying to be? Remember, we're human beings, not human doings. Maybe this is a time to step aside for a bit and just concentrate on not concentrating, and work on not working. You don't have to, of course, it's just a suggestion - something perhaps to toss around and see what you think.

Synchronicity, TED. That's precisely what I was thinking when I first read the OP but didn't know how to say without sounding too critical. You expressed that idea much better than I could have.

Just as a great romance often comes into our lives when we quit looking for one so does a satisfying belief system when we quit seeking and consign ourselves to waiting patiently for something to come to us.

Speaking only for myself, I didn't find my gods and path until I'd given up the search.

gillyflower wrote:Speaking only for myself, I didn't find my gods and path until I'd given up the search.

I was still searching when I found mine. But it's complicated, and I think my gods felt if they didn't step in when they did, there would be trouble.

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:You know, Deavon, something I've noticed about you over the years... and it's not meant to be an insult, mind you, so don't take it that way - But you've always been very busybusybusy. When you were in the church, you were busy trying to reconsile that with your ideas and desires for music, etc., busy trying to find a mate, busy trying to forget about the ex-mate, and now you're busy trying to find your new spiritual path. Have you ever considered just trying to be? Remember, we're human beings, not human doings. Maybe this is a time to step aside for a bit and just concentrate on not concentrating, and work on not working. You don't have to, of course, it's just a suggestion - something perhaps to toss around and see what you think.

or to quote Michael Valentine Smith "Waiting Is".

DeavonReye wrote:I have been looking for a "new path" for a while, but am wondering if I will ever find it. Here's the thing. It seems that the common phrase, when it comes to pretty much any belief system, "it is a matter of faith" is put forth to me. I feel that if I am looking FOR the "supernatural", . . . the "god or goddess", . . . and if I am a type of person who needs to have something more than "faith" [ie. some sort of evidence], I may be disappointed.

My question is, have you, or were you ever in this place, not knowing if you'll ever find it, yet it became known to you in an undenyable way?

Well, not really.

I was in a place where I had given up on all aspects of the supernatural. I hadn't just moved away from popular concepts of the supernatural, I had given up on finding any aspects of the supernatural.

I had switched from trying to find external sources, to just trying to hone myself to the man that I wanted to be.

After I had given up on that, and just started trying to find out what I actually was, how I thought, how I wanted to be, how to make that happen, and working on this process, the gods contacted me.

Things happen differently for everyone. I'm introverted, introspective, and, IRL, very, very terse. I never really worried that much about how I would appear to others. People are going to accept me for me, or their aren't.

I say this more to illustrate the difference here. My path may not be your path. However, when I see what you are going through, I see someone who is very interested in how others see him. My advice, is to stop trying to please everyone, and stop comparing yourself to where others are. Just be you. Look at your personality, and see if it coincides with the virtues that you think you want to be like.

I can't tell you what gods to follow, or how to find them. I know, it'd be easier if I could, but it's not something anyone can do for you. It's something you have to do for yourself.

all

I hadn't considered the idea of "stop looking and you may be found" type of thing. Good advice.