Separation from God

I have been listening to BBC Radio 4's Beyond Belief and they were discussion the concept of hell, naturally mostly within the confines of Christianity. Several of the people on the panel wanted to define hell as separation from god. Now, I don't want to get into the idea of hell and whether it can exist or not, but I did want to get everyone to think about separation from god.

Can you be separated from your god? What would that entail?

Honestly, from my own perspective, the notion that one can be separated from one's gods is mindboggling.

It is to me as well but I think that you could be separated from a particular god if you decided against a relationship with them, correct? That would mean that you don't have a relationship with them, even if they offered. Of course, it might mean that there are many gods that you don't have a relationship with as well, and I can't see that being hell.

The other thought that I have about that is that there seems to be a lot of people walking around doing bad things in the name of their god and, if they are indeed separated from their god for doing them, they don't seem to be aware of it.

I take a different point of view. I don't think they are in communication with their gods.

People can be just as Christian as they want, but if they aren't one of bible gods people, then it doesn't matter. He even says as much, with that "not all who cry out to me...." spiel.

I do think that people can be convinced never to communicate with their rightful gods, and that that is what makes Christianity and other exclusive monotheistic religions so dangerous and sad. They convince people not to communicate with their rightful gods.

I don't think I could be blocked from communication with my gods. Like any other form of communication, there will be periods where neither station is sending any traffic, but the channel is always there.

Like a radio, you can become out of tune, and not pick up, or pick up distorted what is sent, even as what you send becomes garbled and incomplete. This is due to your internal state, and responds to the many forms of active and passive meditations, dreaming, ordeal, or focusing tools that practioners of the various traditions employ.

See? That whole "separation from God" thing goes DIRECTLY against what I believe and have always been taught about God. He'd never turn away.
You can only be separated if you choose to be.

I've never been separated from God, so I'm not really sure how that would work. I've been closer to Him at certain times in my life than in others, but never separated. I agree with tmarie....I think you can only be separated if you choose to be.

John Shelby Spong's newest book, "Eternal Life: A New Vision," addresses the idea of separation from God quite a bit. He blames traditional theistic religion for separating people from God, in many ways. It's a good read.

As a zen Buddhist, I believe there is no real separation between me and everything else -- even if I sometimes act as though there is or fail to see the connections.

In my experience, when the gods want to tell you something, and you won't listen, they WILL use a clue-by-four and MAKE you pay attention.

God is always with me and I can't separate from me. Before I do anything I talk to him to make the best decision.

Um, are you capable of making a decision on your own?

That was kinda uncalled for, All. No one said anything about not making their own decisions. But Chamer DID say "I talk to him"... What's wrong with that?
Didn't deserve that question.... In my opinion.

Pagans have a different mentality about that, tina. All can answer for himself, but in my religion, we are expected to weigh the information that we have and make the best decision we can, based on what we know. Then we take responsibility for the decision and accept the consequences for it.

I may sometimes talk some things over with a god or two but my gods aren't too big on telling me what to do. I learn from the consequences of my choices, that's what I'm here to do. I'm not a child. I don't blame what I do on my gods either.

But I am all for him talking to his god everyday. That's a good thing to do, IMO.

I still feel that it was rude to assume that from this

Before I do anything I talk to him to make the best decision.

Anyone would think it polite to ask if someone is capable of making a decision on their own. It's rude. No one said "I do what God tells me to"...Did you see that? I didn't.
Why is it ok for you to talk it over with "a god or two" but not for those of us who chose ONE God to discuss it with him?
It was a rude question. My husband and I discuss major decisions in our lives, and we talk with God about some of them.... Why is it ok to ask that question of a monotheist?
I stand by my opinion that it was out of line.

Tina, the poster said "Before I do anything I talk to him to make the best decision."

I sometimes talk over troubling things with my gods and I think it is fine if you chose to discuss things with your god too. You said "My husband and I discuss major decisions in our lives, and we talk with God about some of them" You didn't say "before I do anything I talk to him."

Maybe you don't see a difference between not doing anything until you talk to your god, and talking over major decisions with your god, I don't know. I do.

And it is fine that your opinion is that it was out of line. I have a different opinion, that's all. I am actually curious about the answer to All's question.

sacrificialgoddess wrote:I have been listening to BBC Radio 4's Beyond Belief and they were discussion the concept of hell, naturally mostly within the confines of Christianity. Several of the people on the panel wanted to define hell as separation from god. Now, I don't want to get into the idea of hell and whether it can exist or not, but I did want to get everyone to think about separation from god.

Can you be separated from your god? What would that entail?

Honestly, from my own perspective, the notion that one can be separated from one's gods is mindboggling.

When I was a Christian, I always felt separated from God -- or more specifically, I felt that God was silent, hidden, absent (what is termed the deus absconditus -- the inaccessible God). In fact, this feeling that God was inaccessible, silent, absent, hidden, veiled, was the major reason I embarked on my (ultimately misguided) ascetical quest over a decade ago now. It was as if God had taken a vow of silence and had retired into the solitude of a great black cave. I hoped that eventually, through my own solitude and silence, that I either might be able to penetrate into the dark depths of that cave to find God, or that God would manifest himself to me. After so many years of being an atheist, those ideas of mine seem very strange and even ludicrous to me now, but that was how I thought at the end of the 20th century.

I don't think any quest is misguided. It was just your path and it is a path that got you to where you are today. That's a good thing.

I felt like that too at one time in my life. I didn't know there was a term for it - deus absconditus. Strangely enough when I said goodbye to embark on my spiritual quest, that was when Yahweh manifested himself to me. I have very warm feelings for him to this day for that.

tmarie64 wrote:That was kinda uncalled for, All. No one said anything about not making their own decisions. But Chamer DID say "I talk to him"... What's wrong with that?
Didn't deserve that question.... In my opinion.

He said "before he does anything he talks to him to make the best decision". This is a foreign concept to me. My gods expect me to be an autonomous person and make my own decisions. I don't really see from the perspective of always contacting your deity for every decision, or even most decisions. I only ask my deities for help on something that I really can't do for myself, and that is not often. There probably was a better way I could have phrased that, but I really don't see it as a positive. It's a difference of perspective I guess.



all

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CHamer wrote:God is always with me and I can't separate from me. Before I do anything I talk to him to make the best decision.

Without the capacity to make a wrong choice, there is no honour in making a right choice. Without the capacity for making a mistake, there is no widom in chosing rightly. Devoid of choice, there can be no morality. If you consult your god before every decision and follow their dictates, then you are acting more as a puppet and less as a pupil. Do you view your god as your master in the sense of your teacher and guide, or as in your owner?

We all screw up sometimes; knowing what we should have done, but doing something else instead. That makes us human. We all surprise ourself sometimes, knowing what we usually choose to do, but watching ourselves dare to be greater, to meet the challenge we usually avoid, or finding a path where there had only ever been an end. This makes humanity worthy of divine interest.

Our gods are already great beyond our comprehension. They sure don't need us to help them with that. What they do need from us is to see what we can become. This they can only see if we are seperate enough to be independant.