Torah is not for bread

I had a discussion once with a Jewish friend of mine while working in a lab at UBC. As a pagan, I found myself on the same page as my Jewish friend when she explained their dictum "Torah is not for bread", that is, that you should not make your money teaching the words of your god, but through your earthly labours. Your teaching the wisdom of your god should be your gift to your community, not a source of wealth.

When I look at the Christian/Muslim/Hindu/Sikh hiearchical religions, I see a few things that are obvious, and one that is less obvious, that I dissagree with. The vast concentration of wealth, the huge and usually coercive political power of the great churches are the two obvious things I have a problem with, but they are built upon the third which is quietly even more terrible. The third thing that each of these great churches have in common is a parasitic priestly class who are selling the concept that you require their aid to gain access to the divine, however he/she/they are known to you.

I do not get paid for acting as priest. I shell out money hand over fist to put on events, or to travel where pastoral duties of marriage, baby naming, or funerals require the specific training and personal attention of the (elected) leader of our faith community (Heathen Freehold Society of BC, registered Non-Profit). The rest of the time I serve to arbitrate disputes, to network people in the community who are thinking of putting something together, and to show people who are interested how to educate themselves (or help with problems encountered) so they can not only speak to the gods themselves, but offer the rites in their own home, or as host to the community. I actively seek out and support those who want to put on other events because they are not my economic competition, they are sharing the burden. We are encouraged to support each other for the benefit of the community, because we do this out of love, and out of our own pockets.

My neighbor is a "Youth Pastor"; functionally a priest with a formal theological training and certification, who holds a paid full time position to officiate and organize in the church. He makes his bread from Torah. While I was paying over a hundred dollars to host my Ostara ritual, he was being paid close to that for leading his church in their own services. A collection plate was handed around for the funding of the church buildings, the staff of the church offices, the payment of its priests (though not called priests for some reason), with a tiny amount left to spend on charity.

Our event was funded by my bread winning, fed people with my food and the pot luck that makes the pagan community standard. We had a collection jar for the Canadian Red Cross Japan Relief effort. I would say 100% went to the Red Cross, but honestly I topped the ammount up again out of my own pocket, so more than 100% of the colection went to charity.

His church teaches you need to get to Jesus to talk to God. You need to pay the priest to get to Jesus. There is no motivation for the paid priesthood to teach the people how to lead their own services, because they would be out of a job. It is sold as being about community building, and in the sense of funding a municipal bureaucracy it is one. The best of these religious municipalities, or churches, really does try to give some of the money it gets back in to the community to make a difference. However, in any professional priesthood, the most successful professionals, will be terrible priests. The best administrators and fund raisers will rise high and run thier churches like any successful business, to increase their revenue, and amass greater secular and economic power to put forth their own agenda. Corruption is pretty much guarenteed, as the church becomes a political lobbiest, and often through advertising monies, a demagoge. What is at the base a structure of faith, becomes at the apex a structure of naked power politics.

No bread for Torah. Priests should serve their community for the love of the word, and the good of the folk. When you receive gold and power for speaking the word of your god, you will be swiftly served by those seeking gold and power.

There are lots of groups and individuals in every faith that get it right. They wield no political power, or economic clout. They are not "successful" churches. They are successful and harmonious people, wise and true celebrants of their many faiths. Earn your bread with your labours. To be sacred, prayer and instruction must be a gift and a joy, not a paycheque.

If the Asatru and Jews are on the same page, we must be on to something, right?

seems like you are conflating evangelicals with Catholics of all stripes

paid evangelical Church workers believe they are merely "first among equals" and are NOT priests that have access to Jesus -that every believer has equal access-they are paid so they can devote more time to service and not have to divide loyalties between the secular and the divine

Don't muzzle the ox as he tramples out the grain

and the Temple priests of ancient Judaism were supported by Tithes and ate the sacrifices

I see all the abuses of the churches flowing from the profession of clergy and the structure of religion organized above the level of individual congregations. I see all the good that comes from the practice of faith happening at the level of individual congregations or lower.

More structure does not seem to equal more value, but more abuses. I don't muzzle the ox as he tramples the grain, I just wonder why he must carry an office building while he plows.......

but you don't seem to understand that is the basic evangelical position as well

It might be your position Dave but other people and churches that call themselves evangelical are money machines with their clergy flying around in their own private jets. Down here it doesn't even surprise anyone anymore when a pastor gets caught stealing from the church or, like the latest one, stealing the funds that were supposed to go to the poor. The vast majority of church men and women are honest people, but when you set up money machines, you also draw people who will take advantage of the situation or are drawn to the church because they can take advantage of others.

In my tradition, we do not take money for teaching although we allow for teachers to be reimbursed for travel or other expenses. In my religion, we have seen our share of abuses.

Rabbis aren't paid? And that is bullshit "you need to pay the priest to get to Jesus"... Here's a thought..educate yourself on something before criticizing it.
I have NEVER paid a priest for anything. They get pay, yes.
But they are 100% involved in the Church. It is their life. There are no Catholic "mega-churches" and I, frankly, resent the shit out of you equating the likes of those tv preachers to ALL ministers.
You want acceptance and respect yet you make asinine comparisons.... Yeah... and Christians are the intolerant ones.

Dave, is being a minister a paid position?

Tina, I didn't think that Rabbis were paid. It is my understanding that they gain their finances from some other source. This may be wrong, but it's the way I understand it.

My parents donate a full 15% of their pretax income to the church. The church then pays the priests. Sure they can say that they don't pay the priests, but I see that as semantics. They pay the church, and the church pays the priests, and the priests don't have another source of income.

all

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Dave, is being a minister a paid position?

It can be; depends on the finances of the Church

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm not aware of a minister that isn't paid by his church.

This may just be because I haven't bothered to research them all.

all

we have lots of "bi-vocational" preachers among the various Baptists especially in the rural areas and on the Mission field

many churches are too small to pay a salary and so a person who is full-time employed volunteers as pastor

on the mission field they are often supported by a related charity-school, clinic or food bank and run their church on the side

Davelaw wrote:we have lots of "bi-vocational" preachers among the various Baptists especially in the rural areas and on the Mission field

many churches are too small to pay a salary and so a person who is full-time employed volunteers as pastor

on the mission field they are often supported by a related charity-school, clinic or food bank and run their church on the side

That is the way it should be. I am willing to gamble the quality of person and committment seen here far ourstrips those in the higher paid, and better dressed mega churches. I guess it is a bit like the army, there are those who are out getting dirty because they know the job needs to be done, and a whole lot of well tailored manicured REMF.

Learn something new everyday.

I agree with John.

I know of two preachers who are not paid. One was Lutheran (I believe - he worked at a Lutheran college) and the other was a fundamentalist of no denomination.

This is kind of connected. I found it very interesting:

Religion may become extinct in nine nations, study says http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

I have moved more myself toward nondenominational religion. I wonder too if it becomes more prevalent and acceptable how it will change religion.