Sky burial ...

(graphic, not for the faint of heart or squeamish)

Fascinating pictures from a Buddhist sky burial in Tibet. (browse to that link using an Adblocker if you're easily offended by vulgar ads, I've not found a 'clean' site to link to)

They're gross but also beautiful in a way.

A dead body is simply meat. Its atoms will reconfigure with other atoms in new ways, they will split and become part of different beings or elements. The circle of life. Recycling all the way.

And if there's a soul then it doesn't need that corpse anyway. If there isn't, well, then the corpse isn't needed anymore either.

I like it that Buddhists don't cling at the corpse like we do. We still see the person that once resided in that physical shell. But this person is not there anymore. Let go.

I wish I could be fed to vultures after my death. Won't be possible here so I'll probably opt for cremation and then being scattered at a nice place in nature.

Various American Indians or Native Americans as they're now more commonly called used sky burial in the past. So that the corpse wouldn't be dismembered and dispersed by mammalian scavengers such as coyotes, a raised platform was used.

Makes a lot of sense, IMO.

There's also some merit, I think, to the medieval European custom of the charnel house in order to keep the amount of ground needed for burials to a minimum.

Btw, the link didn't pull up anything on my computer.

DotNotInOz wrote:Various American Indians or Native Americans as they're now more commonly called used sky burial in the past. So that the corpse wouldn't be dismembered and dispersed by mammalian scavengers such as coyotes, a raised platform was used.

Makes a lot of sense, IMO.

There's also some merit, I think, to the medieval European custom of the charnel house in order to keep the amount of ground needed for burials to a minimum.

The interesting difference between Buddhists and Christians in this case is though that the former are happy to get rid of the body, or to help the soul escape the body (for the next incarnation) while the later hope that the bodies of the dead will be resurrected again (although the ideas and concepts on this are very vague and full of flaws and paradoxes )

Quite right that the reasons for the different burial styles are almost diametrically opposite.

Sometimes, I wonder what factors contributed to such dramatic differences in attitudes.

In parts of Thailand, I've read, people gather to mourn rather than celebrate the birth of a child because life involves so much suffering that one must work to get beyond, and death is a release from that struggle.

DotNotInOz wrote:Quite right that the reasons for the different burial styles are almost diametrically opposite.

Sometimes, I wonder what factors contributed to such dramatic differences in attitudes.

In parts of Thailand, I've read, people gather to mourn rather than celebrate the birth of a child because life involves so much suffering that one must work to get beyond, and death is a release from that struggle.

When I die I hope the people will celebrate rather than mourn! Not because they've finally gotten rid of me though

They should be happy for the time we had together and not be sad about the fact that this isn't possible anymore!

It's also interesting at how much we attach the person to his or her body. The corpse still is, to a degree, that person. Even though it's inanimate and devoid of ideas, intentions, emotions, etc. I prefer the Buddhist view who see the corpse just like what it is: a corpse. A shell. Meat and bones.

Celsus wrote:When I die I hope the people will celebrate rather than mourn! Not because they've finally gotten rid of me though

Considering the "lively discussion" we've been having on the infamous video thread, I think it's safe to say that "Good riddance" might well be the feeling of a number of people on the forum should your demise occur anytime soon. < wry smile >

It's also interesting at how much we attach the person to his or her body. The corpse still is, to a degree, that person. Even though it's inanimate and devoid of ideas, intentions, emotions, etc. I prefer the Buddhist view who see the corpse just like what it is: a corpse. A shell. Meat and bones.

Hmmmm...a shell, huh? A shell that enclosed what? A soul, perhaps? < heh heh>

Yanno, Jerome, I'm beginning to think that Dave is onto something. That you would even mention "shell" in this context makes me think that you're repressing all kinds of yearnings toward "getting right with God."

:::::::::: ducking and running very fast in case he thinks I'm serious and starts throwing things ::::::::

I did, on a serious note again, find it quite intriguing in Jane Goodall's recent memoir where she described witnessing the death of her mother. I think that was the situation. I believe Goodall said that she and an aunt were present and both observed a silvery mist rise from her mother's body and coalesce briefly in the air above the body before dissipating. It's been a few years since I read the book, so I wouldn't swear to the accuracy of my recollection.

Anyway, Goodall said that she was more inclined toward the belief that there is such a thing as the "soul" after having experienced this.

DotNotInOz wrote:

Celsus wrote:When I die I hope the people will celebrate rather than mourn! Not because they've finally gotten rid of me though

Considering the "lively discussion" we've been having on the infamous video thread, I think it's safe to say that "Good riddance" might well be the feeling of a number of people on the forum should your demise occur anytime soon. < wry smile >

Maybe. But I don't care And I doubt there many would act like that anyway.

It's also interesting at how much we attach the person to his or her body. The corpse still is, to a degree, that person. Even though it's inanimate and devoid of ideas, intentions, emotions, etc. I prefer the Buddhist view who see the corpse just like what it is: a corpse. A shell. Meat and bones.

Hmmmm...a shell, huh? A shell that enclosed what? A soul, perhaps? < heh heh>

No. I don't believe in a soul. At least not in the traditional, let alone Christian, sense. I might in a pantheist sense. But what I meant was that the computer inside the shell, the brain, animating the body, had stopped functioning and was dead.

Yanno, Jerome, I'm beginning to think that Dave is onto something. That you would even mention "shell" in this context makes me think that you're repressing all kinds of yearnings toward "getting right with God."

:::::::::: ducking and running very fast in case he thinks I'm serious and starts throwing things ::::::::

I did, on a serious note again, find it quite intriguing in Jane Goodall's recent memoir where she described witnessing the death of her mother. I think that was the situation. I believe Goodall said that she and an aunt were present and both observed a silvery mist rise from her mother's body and coalesce briefly in the air above the body before dissipating. It's been a few years since I read the book, so I wouldn't swear to the accuracy of my recollection.

Anyway, Goodall said that she was more inclined toward the belief that there is such a thing as the "soul" after having experienced this.

Hey, didn't she also see gorillas in the mist?

Not unless she was channeling Diane Fossey.

DotNotInOz wrote:Not unless she was channeling Diane Fossey.

True, that was the other ape lady

If a silvery mist would leave a body at the moment of death then that would a. be known and b. have been filmed.

Cool.
I've always said that I just wanted to be wrapped in a sheet and drug into the woods.

Provided that my wife doesn't kill me in my sleep, or a serial killer get hold of me somehow, I suppose I will have to settle on cremation as well.

all

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Cool.
I've always said that I just wanted to be wrapped in a sheet and drug into the woods.

Provided that my wife doesn't kill me in my sleep, or a serial killer get hold of me somehow, I suppose I will have to settle on cremation as well.

all

I also hate it that there is a whole 'burial industry' out there who tries to make people feel bad or guilty if they don't do X or Y or don't buy Z for a funeral ... Suckers!

Celsus wrote:
I also hate it that there is a whole 'burial industry' out there who tries to make people feel bad or guilty if they don't do X or Y or don't buy Z for a funeral ... Suckers!

I won't feel guilty, I'll be dead!

Seriously, I hate that they prey on people in their time of mourning.

all

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

Celsus wrote:
I also hate it that there is a whole 'burial industry' out there who tries to make people feel bad or guilty if they don't do X or Y or don't buy Z for a funeral ... Suckers!

I won't feel guilty, I'll be dead!

Seriously, I hate that they prey on people in their time of mourning.

all

I was not referring to the one who has just died ...

I was referring to the mourning family of course.

http://mosnews.com/weird/2009/07/30/photosoul/

There were a lot of studies done by the Soviets capturing photos of what appears to be a mist leaving the body right at the moment of dying, during the Cold War as well.

Commie bastards!

I know. I'd have to dig out of storage my books from the cold war.

To pass Criminology 101 in 2003 I put on a presentation about the use of psychics in the police force, and CIA. It's frankly amazing how many psychics are employed worldwide in the police force to (successfully!) find missing persons, bodies, criminals, etc.; it's still not really talked about openly.

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:To pass Criminology 101 in 2003 I put on a presentation about the use of psychics in the police force, and CIA. It's frankly amazing how many psychics are employed worldwide in the police force to (successfully!) find missing persons, bodies, criminals, etc.; it's still not really talked about openly.

It's kind of funny, they will pay people to do it, but when it comes around to it it is like they are embarrassed of it.

all

Interestingly, I googled a bit on this and found reference to an account of author Louisa May Alcott that she and her mother observed a silver mist rising from the body when Alcott's sister Beth died.

Makes me wonder what it is.

Yes Dot, a great number of (sane, normal) people have told the same story. I've never been around a person as they died myself, only before and after.

Yeah, I've read other such accounts.

I just thought it interesting that Jane Goodall had had such an experience.

I think she said elsewhere that she's not conventionally religious, so this really made her wonder what it could be.

I must go back and look at that portion of the book again.

I will be cremated when I go, My grandmother would never dream of such a thing after all how could god put her back together if she were only ashes

I actually would not have as many objection to burial if they did not place people in Steel boxes meant to not let the person become part of nature once again.
I buried my cat, (not cremated) she was wrapped in organic cotton fabric and will someday be completely gone, all the while giving back to nature.

I think that you can get a pine box still, at least in some states. You ought to check with the authorities.

Here you go, the Plain Maine Pine Box!

http://www.mainecottagegarden.com/pine_box.html

I want to be cremated. I think it was going on archeology digs and anthro in college. I don't want to be dug up in a thousand years.

There's a place near here that does natural burials in the ground without the junk. It's hard to find that.

Gilly: Oh c'mon.

In 1,000 years I'll dig you up and say "Hey, I knew that chick!"

MaineCaptain wrote:I actually would not have as many objection to burial if they did not place people in Steel boxes meant to not let the person become part of nature once again.

Jews don't do that, did you know?

I can't speak for Reforms who may be less strict about burials, but hubby explained that his family's branch of Judaism specifies that the body be washed and enclosed in plain cloth...don't remember if he said the body is dressed or not. No embalming which is regarded as defacing the body. The corpse is then placed in a plain wooden box for burial and it's put directly into the ground.

My mom would have liked the fact that there's no vault...you know, those concrete or alloy boxes that the coffin is put into that are then lidded and sealed. She HATED vaults and told me several times please make sure there was none when she was buried.

I still feel bad about not being able to honor her wish. The cemetery Dad chose required vaults to prevent so much subsidence of the soil over the graves, making it easier for the ground crew to mow.

Oh, well...nothing I could do about it.