Reconstructing the nasty bits

Human sacrifice, Misogony, Marriage by abduction, Trials by ordeal, Blood Feuds...

A recent blog entry led me to ask a similar question here; To all the recons out there, how do you address the aspects of past societies which are abhorent to modern sensibilities?

Many Pagans who are not also recons, can simply pick and choose the bits they like and toss out what they dislike. However, for anyone who is an earnest/ honest Recon and it trying to accurately reconstruct, the issues are a little more complicated. We are unable to cherry pick and need to address such issues and come up with coherant reasons why we can no longer hold to such beliefs.

Perhaps the most sussincnt response I have come across, is that recons are in the business of reconstructing religions and cultures, not of societies. Simply because there may have been problematic aspects of iron age culture does not mean that we must then also practice such behaviours.

thoughts?

I don't much worry about the unsavory bits. That's not to say that I don't want to understand from whence they came and what effect they had on the people, I'm just not particularly appalled at their presence.

I don't feel any compunction about not including the bad stuff in my current context for a couple of reasons. First, I'm not a product of the Ancient Near East and I'm not obliged to adhere to any dysfunctional beliefs or practices simply because I've chosen to look to Bronze Age Canaanites for religious guidance. Second, there's nothing to say that if the Canaanites had survived to the modern age as a relatively coherent culture that the bad bits wouldn't have been discarded along the way.

I'm looking for the wisdom of the Canaanites and that doesn't necessarily only fit within the specific practices of the Canaanites.

To all the recons out there, how do you address the aspects of past societies which are abhorent to modern sensibilities?

Probably the same way that modern followers of the god of Abraham address sacrifice and polygamy.

They were aspects of a past society that due to our current society can not and should not be brought into the present.

Personally I don't think that any of those things were ever done for the good of the gods, but for the people who thought that they were doing something for the gods.

all

I agree with All,

of course don't "Human sacrifice, Misogony, Marriage by abduction, Trials by ordeal, Blood Feuds.." still go on in some countries in some parts of the world?

I keep reading horrible things about some middle eastern countries that gives me the impression they are stuck in a 2000 years old time warp.
Not everyone has moved on.

Sorry for off topic

Sadly, you are correct

What ain't good, ya toss. Religions have to grow up or die. In the case of recon religions, well, they DID die, all things happen for a cause and effect reason. As Bishop Spong's book title says, Why Christianity Must Change or Die.

Well as is the case of many of the recon paths, the religion didn't die per se, as there was never a real seperation between religion and the culture to begin with. In the case of CR, at least the Gaels anyway, the old Gods were not abandoned but rather encorporated in the new religion, and the figure of the heroic Pagan past was subsumed by the Saints. Certainly overt worship of the old Gods did stop, but they did survive in ways right down to today, its one of the reasons the living folk cultures are such an integral part of the Reconstruction process.

Gorm_Sionnach wrote:Human sacrifice, Misogony, Marriage by abduction, Trials by ordeal, Blood Feuds...

A recent blog entry led me to ask a similar question here; To all the recons out there, how do you address the aspects of past societies which are abhorent to modern sensibilities?

Many Pagans who are not also recons, can simply pick and choose the bits they like and toss out what they dislike. However, for anyone who is an earnest/ honest Recon and it trying to accurately reconstruct, the issues are a little more complicated. We are unable to cherry pick and need to address such issues and come up with coherant reasons why we can no longer hold to such beliefs.

Perhaps the most sussincnt response I have come across, is that recons are in the business of reconstructing religions and cultures, not of societies. Simply because there may have been problematic aspects of iron age culture does not mean that we must then also practice such behaviours.

thoughts?

1-Human Sacrifice: the custom of dedicating the slain to Odin requires a spear be tossed above the field before the first blood is shed to dedicate all who die to Odin. In token of the offering, the corpses of the dead are not looted, as the loot too belongs to Odin.
How do you do this in modern terms? Fire a warning shot above the enemies head per UN rules of engagement, if hostiles continue to close and fire, then stack their corpses like cordwood in honour of the Battle-Glad, let their souls be his, for their ass is surely mine.
The other forms of human sacrifice I just do not feel are justified or relevant. If I am wrong, let the gods so instruct me in person.

2-Misogyny: we never did it before, be bloody stupid to start now.

3-Marriage by abduction: Paris style by seduction is totally still allowed, Halfdan style by kidnapping has much better enforcement than it had in days of yore. You will find yourself arrested and jailed, as reciprocal treaties, or the laws of your own nation will punish you. No longer can you skip across borders to escape the consequences of your crimes. While I don't think we should sacrifice rapist anymore (too many religions fighting over who and how to do it), I do favour executing them.

4-Trial by ordeal. We did trial by combat, and I fully support the custom of the code duello. The law gets first chance to make justice, for justice is the best result for individuals and for communities. If justice is powerless to act, and the offense is grave enough that it is worth any price to see balanced, then cold steel and the will of the gods shall determine who stands vindicated, and who bleeds out on the stones. Really, its better you stand trial, our courts are much more lenient than I, and those who submit to justice have nothing to fear from me.

5-Blood Feuds: Our faith introduced the custom of wereguild, a suffering price to pay upon killing another human being. In this way, even those whose kills were necessary and justified can make peace with the family that has lost a child. Even the basest of scum suckled at a breast, and for every sick rapist you see put down there was once an innocent toddler who was loved, and will be missed. Wereguild addresses and acknoledges the suffering of the family who lost, that it end with a single killing, or with a single judicial punishment, and not continue into a destructive cycle of blood feud and vendetta. It was never tolerated in my faith, and always seen as the enemy of the folk.